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US citizens warned they face arbitrary arrest in China

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Re: US citizens warned they face arbitrary arrest in China

#181

Post by Nginx487 »

ciguy wrote: post #13
rorykoehler wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Posted 10 mins ago and already downvoted. Do HN not have algos to stop this astroturfing behaviour? It’s becoming very prevalent for anything that criticises the CCP.

Yep, every time I post anything that mentions China I lose Karma, but I don't particularly care. Sometimes the comments start with 10+ upvotes and then suddenly a wave of downvotes comes. Most recently some very new accounts with mostly pro china submissions and comments began using my real name and posting it in comments, apparently thinking I would be scared of having my real name associated with anything critical…

Karma is just a counter in database. Hong Kongers do not afraid to face a death sentence for opposing the regime. Don't afraid to tell the truth, the worst may happen to you is a couple of downvotes by troll factory workers from Beijing.

Re: US citizens warned they face arbitrary arrest in China

#182

Post by trixie_ »

oddlyamused wrote: post #44
trixie_ wrote: post #31

The current administration has been bullying China incessantly. I'm not going to say if the reasons were justified or not because it's complicated, but we shouldn't be surprised by China's response. It's not like we're actively trying to improve relations either.

The world needs to start bullying China. I am sickened by how weak the EU is with china. They care only about profits. We need to start treating China like we treat Russia. They are a serious threat to the rest of the world environmentally, politically, and militarily.

Sure bully China some more. Today they're kicking out foreigners, tomorrow they will take Taiwan. No dobut. Just like the world stood by as Hong Kong fell, the same will happen with Taiwan. China is only testing the waters with Hong Kong.

That's what being tough is all about. Be careful what you wish for.

Re: US citizens warned they face arbitrary arrest in China

#183

Post by koheripbal »

mthoms wrote: post #171
gambiting wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, is it really such a rare thing to do? I know that in Poland if you have any outstanding and overdue unpaid fines/alimonies/traffic tickets, you will be prevented from boarding a flight out of the country at any airport until those obligations are paid.

You're missing the point. People are being accused for crimes they (more than likely) didn't commit and denied basic human rights. They face a 99% conviction rate in the Chinese courts. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-china-charges-...

What do you think the conviction rates in western courts are? It's pretty close to 99% as well.

Re: US citizens warned they face arbitrary arrest in China

#184

Post by tristor »

runawaybottle wrote: post #84
eloisius wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Defying” implies that they are in some kind of authority over whether another country offers an immigration path to willing immigrants. No one is defying them here. They are acting outside the bounds of whatever legitimate authority they have, and have been doing so for some time. They are being checked.

Oh sure, I used the word with some attempt at seeing things from their perspective. China has been mostly seen as a rational amoral actor in the global stage, but it’s entirely possible over time their perspective is taking on a, you know, authoritarian shape. ‘You don’t just arrest our business leaders’, there’s a lot of face to save there.

I don't think there's a time in living memory for most people on HN when China wasn't authoritarian. If anything, they've become more relaxed in the last 3 decades, but we're seeing them more recently re-exert authority.

Re: US citizens warned they face arbitrary arrest in China

#185

Post by fermienrico »

notaround1111 wrote: post #178
fermienrico wrote: post #157

Deleting this comment - I will email dang.

I've also noticed a large influx of new accounts posting low quality, politically charged comments in the past few months. You can find plenty of those in this thread. I think its pretty likely that we're headed for an extinction type event for upvote based "anonymous" message boards like HN, reddit ... or at least a significant decline in their usefulness

What's a good alternative architecture that promotes quality content/comments and prevents regression short of manual compilation, moderation and curation?

Edit: Jotting down some ideas:

1) Occlude/Delude/Fog-up the votes for newly created accounts. Mature accounts get to see gray posts.

2) Consesus amongst mature accounts has higher weight over newly created accounts.

3) Penalty for being flagged is higher for mature accounts as with power comes responsibility of good behavior.

4) Karma should have more meaning that just a tally of points. Upvoting costs Karma (-1 from balance). So, people are more careful and have to strongly agree to upvote. Probably some caveats and downsides here.

5) Buffer out the oscillations of upvotes/downvotes. Sort of like a mass-spring-damper system.

6) Hire moderators that are vetted and publicly funded by HN members.

7) Verified accounts with work email or some other means. These accounts would have the highest weight in anything they do.

Re: US citizens warned they face arbitrary arrest in China

#186

Post by trixie_ »

throwaway1997 wrote: post #45
trixie_ wrote: post #31

The current administration has been bullying China incessantly. I'm not going to say if the reasons were justified or not because it's complicated, but we shouldn't be surprised by China's response. It's not like we're actively trying to improve relations either.

Ah yes, telling China not to abuse human rights is "bullying" now

The current administration could could care less about human rights. That's obviously not what I'm talking about.

Re: US citizens warned they face arbitrary arrest in China

#187

Post by mthoms »

IllogicalLogic wrote: post #170
jorblumesea wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think anyone would disagree that she's a pawn in a geopolitical struggle, but it also sounds like she absolutely and intentionally violated US law. There's pretty clear evidence, mostly in emails, of Huawei execs knowingly flaunting the export laws. It's unclear if the westerners detained in China have committed crimes. I think their detention is a good example of what this warning is about. Detained for uncl…

>I don't think anyone would disagree that she's a pawn in a geopolitical struggle, but it also sounds like she absolutely and intentionally violated US law Someone that didn't visit the US was arrested for "breaking US law"...replace "US" with "China" and see how this sentence rings.

She provided false statements and evidence to the US Government (and US banking entities) in order export US products to a sanctioned regime. All for a tidy profit.

So, while you're correct that she didn't commit a crime within the USA, she did commit one directly against US businesses and the US government.

As a non-American, I do find the extraterritoriality of US law very concerning, but I don't think this serves as a good example of overreach. She'd have been fine if she didn't enter a country with an extradition treaty with the US. That wasn't the smartest move.

Re: US citizens warned they face arbitrary arrest in China

#188

Post by [deleted] »

magicsmoke wrote: post #134
indymike wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is certainly not a cold war - it's a trade war, it's competition, it's different cultures... but it is not war frozen in place by the threat of annihilation.

One-sided cold war perhaps. China has no interest in turning the US communist. Because of Chinese exceptionalism, it doesn't think that's desirable or even possible. Can the US picture a future where it coexists with a communist China though? Based on comments from most Anglophone commentators, that doesn't seem to be the case. Their only two end goals for China is eventual democracy or eventual collapse.

[deleted]

Re: US citizens warned they face arbitrary arrest in China

#189

Post by Aperocky »

razakel wrote: post #125
Aperocky wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Karm Gilespie, had been sentenced to death for attempting to smuggle 7.5kg of methamphetamine through a Chinese airport in December 2013. The death penalty threshold is 50 gram for methamphetamine in China, in absence of other 'good behavior' such as collaboration, etc. If any Chinese citizen attempted to smuggle this much drugs into China, it's going to be the same fate, except maybe faster. Drug dealers in China…

Why would someone smuggle meth into China? Surely with China's fairly lax regulations on the chemical industry someone would be more likely to be smuggling it out...

A lot of regulation in China is barely/at all enforced, but if you think that also apply to drug regulation then you're very very wrong.

Entertainment figures regularly gets shunned by the whole industry because they were caught smoking pot, which is not even a criminal offense in China. The whole mentality is worth a book but to the Chinese society (not just government) drugs are taken very seriously.

Re: US citizens warned they face arbitrary arrest in China

#190

Post by mthoms »

koheripbal wrote: post #183
mthoms wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're missing the point. People are being accused for crimes they (more than likely) didn't commit and denied basic human rights. They face a 99% conviction rate in the Chinese courts. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-china-charges-...

What do you think the conviction rates in western courts are? It's pretty close to 99% as well.

You literally just made that up.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conviction_rate

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