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US citizens warned they face arbitrary arrest in China

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Re: US citizens warned they face arbitrary arrest in China

#81

Post by Karunamon »

poiuytrewqa wrote: post #60
justwalt wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d imagine it’s far easier to be sentenced to death there as opposed to the US.

To be honest, as European I think China and US are pretty similar in many ways (propaganda, law enforcement etc). So said each country has their own problem but if anybody focus more on resolving their internal problem before teaching everybody how to live would be better. In this forum is very hard to discuss anything serious that doesn't follow the prevalent opinion that you get down votes without reason.

You're probably attracting downvotes because comparing China (show trials, double jeopardy, arbitrary and whim-based penalties) to the US when it comes to capital punishment is not even remotely accurate.

Re: US citizens warned they face arbitrary arrest in China

#82

Post by mlthoughts2018 »

jarfil wrote: post #48
mlthoughts2018 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Completely agree. I lived and worked in HK a number of years ago and find China and Chinese people to be some of the most beautiful and interesting cultural assets in the world. So it sucks that I likely will never visit again in my lifetime. China is already dying, the oppressionist leadership just is self-deluded and doesn’t understand it yet. The further you move away from liberal democracy with deliberately decen…

I'm not sure China is underestimating anything. They had an asset, in the form of millions of underqualified workers, and they've used it, to manufacture cheap stuff. But with increasing automation, that asset was never going to last; every passing year it's becoming easier for other countries to replace Chinese manufacturing with local developments, and I think they know it. In order to stay relevant, China needs a…

I think you misunderstand

> “ but in order to control those better educated people, they will need ever better control mechanisms.”

This is like a building whose own load directly undermines its own stability, or a roller coaster whose own construction dynamics tears itself apart little by little with each run.

Trying to institute mass social control while changing a population to be highly educated knowledge workers is like boiling the ocean.

In some small local patch of time, it looks scary (ooooh social credit system, face recognition everywhere, disappeared artists and journalists, cyber warfare.. spooky)

Zoom out on the scale of 50 years and it’s farcically stupid.

Wanting an enduring human population asset and wanting authoritarian control are fundamentally incompatible desires. At best they can be sustained through force on short time scales, then ending up very very bloody for the leadership involved.

Re: US citizens warned they face arbitrary arrest in China

#83

Post by wendyshu »

Aperocky wrote: post #77
wendyshu wrote: post #8

Not just arrested but tortured, as we've seen with the two Canadian Michaels and the British Simon Cheng. Edit: British-employed not actually British

Simon Cheng apparently were on British mission to gather intel and were called a spy by BBC, also, he is not British. Check out the BBC interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_2TzuNsZDM

Oops, thank you.

Re: US citizens warned they face arbitrary arrest in China

#84

Post by runawaybottle »

eloisius wrote: post #70
runawaybottle wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well Canada really defied China by arresting Huawei CFO and (could then extradite to US). China is really in a weird coldish war with the West, especially when you throw in England defying them with sanctuary for HKers. They must be getting pissed, curious how things could escalate.

“Defying” implies that they are in some kind of authority over whether another country offers an immigration path to willing immigrants. No one is defying them here. They are acting outside the bounds of whatever legitimate authority they have, and have been doing so for some time. They are being checked.

Oh sure, I used the word with some attempt at seeing things from their perspective. China has been mostly seen as a rational amoral actor in the global stage, but it’s entirely possible over time their perspective is taking on a, you know, authoritarian shape.

‘You don’t just arrest our business leaders’, there’s a lot of face to save there.

Re: US citizens warned they face arbitrary arrest in China

#85

Post by Aperocky »

adventured wrote: post #11
gentleman11 wrote: post #3

This is bad for Canadians recently, with many arrests and accusations of spying, all because of political retaliation over that rich lady

For Australia as well. They recently gave an Australian citizen a death penalty sentence in retaliation for the ongoing conflict between Australia and China. At the rate things are going, in another five years nobody from a liberal nation will be able to safely visit Xi's new hermit kingdom. It's a shame. I always thought it would be nice to visit Hong Kong.

> Karm Gilespie, had been sentenced to death for attempting to smuggle 7.5kg of methamphetamine through a Chinese airport in December 2013.

The death penalty threshold is 50 gram for methamphetamine in China, in absence of other 'good behavior' such as collaboration, etc. If any Chinese citizen attempted to smuggle this much drugs into China, it's going to be the same fate, except maybe faster.

Drug dealers in China are executed for much less. To paint that as 'retaliation for ongoing conflict' is laughable.

Re: US citizens warned they face arbitrary arrest in China

#87

Post by indymike »

eplanit wrote: post #6

I get the impression that we're now in an undeclared Cold War with China.

This is certainly not a cold war - it's a trade war, it's competition, it's different cultures... but it is not war frozen in place by the threat of annihilation.

Re: US citizens warned they face arbitrary arrest in China

#88

Post by [deleted] »

poiuytrewqa wrote: post #60
justwalt wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d imagine it’s far easier to be sentenced to death there as opposed to the US.

To be honest, as European I think China and US are pretty similar in many ways (propaganda, law enforcement etc). So said each country has their own problem but if anybody focus more on resolving their internal problem before teaching everybody how to live would be better. In this forum is very hard to discuss anything serious that doesn't follow the prevalent opinion that you get down votes without reason.

[deleted]

Re: US citizens warned they face arbitrary arrest in China

#89

Post by prepend »

ebg13 wrote: post #63
ketzu wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My experience in tienanmen: Showing my passwort and a bag scanner, going through. Area was limited with small metal fences. My experience at the eiffel tower: Bag scanner, didn't go through (because I had a huge bag which was not allowed). Area was limited with huge glass panes. (Don't know if they want to see any ID) So it felt very much the same to me, but the security in Paris was probably not police (I didn't go…

> Area was limited with huge glass panes Having lived in Paris for several years, I don't recall ever seeing access to the Eiffel Tower area restricted at all except during restoration construction. It's a giant pass-through surrounded by park where thousands of people congregate daily.

I was there last July and there were huge plexiglass lanes restricting access. Once I made it through bag checks, I could wait in line to buy passes to climb up.

All previous times (2000, 2005, 2011) I could just walk under without any restriction.

Re: US citizens warned they face arbitrary arrest in China

#90

Post by [deleted] »

alex_anglin wrote: post #65
nabla9 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chinese government is constantly challenging the validity of foreign passport if the person is ethnically Han Chinese. Governments must apply diplomatic pressure go get their citizens free.

The Michaels are not ethnically Chinese.

[deleted]
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