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Why are Black Nerds so Unpopular?

davidadewumi.com

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Re: Why are Black Nerds so Unpopular?

#21

Post by twism »

wumi wrote: post #17
maxklein wrote: post #11

Both Paul Graham and Wumi are off the mark. You see, unpopular people are people who have not learned to play the game successfully. There are two competitions going on in schools: 1. Be as good as you can be socially 2. Be as good as you can be regarding intellectual development Every student will want to have the maximum of both those things, but the problem is that most people tend to choose one path and then work…

I'm not sure where my post would lead you to suggest that there is no middle ground. In fact I mention that (partially) by virtue of being a good athlete, I happened to garner a fair amount of popularity. In fact, from your comments I'm not sure if you read what I wrote at all. Really, if you've been to public high school in America (or, as I noted, several other countries), popularity is derived mostly from good loo…

Glad to see another black (and of nigerian descent to boot) hacker on News.YC.

Re: Why are Black Nerds so Unpopular?

#22

Post by wumi »

maxklein wrote: post #20
wumi wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure where my post would lead you to suggest that there is no middle ground. In fact I mention that (partially) by virtue of being a good athlete, I happened to garner a fair amount of popularity. In fact, from your comments I'm not sure if you read what I wrote at all. Really, if you've been to public high school in America (or, as I noted, several other countries), popularity is derived mostly from good loo…

Does your name not usually have an n in it? And is it not usually a girls name? I read your article to the end. This black culture looking down on intelligence thing is not new or insightful. I've read about that lots of time on the internet. Black culture does not look down on intelligence. It looks down on nerdiness. Let's imagine there is some really cool black guy - let's say the 50 cent of your high school. He d…

This is conjecture vs. (limited) life experience. My life experience says different than your conjecture, but of course I don't presume to say that all black culture is like my personal experience, although from what I've seen, heard, and read, it mostly is.

Re: Why are Black Nerds so Unpopular?

#23

Post by 1gor »

This whole 'nerd' vs 'jock' meme seems to be a fairly typical situation of 'invest' vs 'consume'. A young kid has no other assets apart of time. You can spend you time being popular NOW, at the expense of studies and other form of self-enrichment. Sports (with their short fitness time-span) are not really an investment, unless you are a really talented athlete.

So, by investing your time wisely as a kid you have a good chance of reaping monetary rewards later -- in term of a good job or even your own business.

An additional bonus for geeks comes in a form of above average growth rate for knowledge industry. We are living through a kind of 'industrial revolution' that is changing the shape of traditional industries. The rate of return that an internet software business can deliver is unmatched. And it can only be run by a geek, somebody who has spent countless hours bending his mind around recursion rather than flexing his muscles in front of girls.

And of course, "the girls will come chasing", after you reap economic rent from your investment.

Re: Why are Black Nerds so Unpopular?

#24

Post by bilbo0s »

I'm hesitant to ask this question because I think many of you will probably jump down my throat, but I will anyway.

Are any of you actually Black American? By which I mean a son or daughter of American Slavery.

I only ask because I would like to hear from one of them, about being a nerd in the black community. The reason I ask is because I've seen in Newark and LA for example, where even black athletes are only worried about getting home after school. I talked to a football standout from Newark and his exact words were,"I'm not tryin' to meet new faces at school, if I want women, that's what church is for." What I mean is, when I talk to these kids you get the sense that, between the police, the teachers, and the gang members, high school for them is a dangerous place. Many of them have expressed little interest in popularity, or looking down on others, indeed, they express little interest in even knowing others. It is dangerous to them. They SEEM to be just trying to get through the day without crossing the wrong person. Or as the young man I talked to would say, "Ain't no kids in a ghetto high school."

This contrasts sharply with things I've read in the national press and in reports like this about being 'cool', and looking down on the smart kids.

-- EDITED OUT A PART PEOPLE MAY FIND OFFENSIVE --

I'd imagine the average nerdy guy from the black underclass is far more concerned with mistaken identity on his way home, than he is with being accosted because he is smart.

But again, I'd like to know if I'm way off here.

Re: Why are Black Nerds so Unpopular?

#25

Post by andres »

I have noticed the same phenomenon in the black and hispanic community as wumi. I think PG's explanation is still valid though. Kids choose popularity over intelligence because becoming successful by being smart seems to be more difficult than becoming successful by being popular. There have not been many visible examples of blacks and hispanics who became successful by being smart so when a child has to choose between intelligence and popularity they are more likely to choose popularity.

I'm going to hypothesize that there is a correlation between unpopularity of nerds and the probability of success through intelligence. The less likely it is that people will become successful by being smart the more likely people will try to be successful by being popular. In the competition to become popular the first ones to lose are the ones who don't care about being popular: nerds.

There are a lot more examples of smart and successful blacks and hispanics now than there were a generation ago. I bet that black nerds will become more popular soon. Of course, they'll still be unpopular because they're nerds.

Re: Why are Black Nerds so Unpopular?

#27

Post by natrius »

rokhayakebe wrote: post #6

Wumi, color does not have much to do with popularity. Popularity depends on what you do better than the average guy and where you do it. In America (where Hollywood and Sports are kings) if you play football better than 98% of your schoolmates you are likely to be popular. The same does not hold truth for a top programmer within is high school. In some parts of your continent, yo could be the best soccer player in th…

"Wumi, color does not have much to do with popularity."

I think it does.

In many high schools in America, social groups tend to follow racial lines, though by no means absolutely. If you're a white or Asian nerd, there are plenty of other similar nerds for you to associate with. However, if you're a black or Hispanic nerd, there aren't so many.

For me, this never ended up being a problem because all of the nerds shared almost every class, so we ended up being a pretty tight group on our own. For a black nerd who wasn't as nerdy as I am, things were probably more difficult. He wouldn't be in all of the same classes, so he wouldn't grow as close to the nerds, but he'd still be relatively isolated from the "normal" black people.

It seems that blacks and Hispanics have a larger social disincentive for being a nerd than other groups, though that is probably on the lower end of factors that contribute to underrepresentation in the nerd population.

Re: Why are Black Nerds so Unpopular?

#28

Post by rw »

Alex3917 wrote: post #4
riahi wrote: post #2

I don't think this observation--kids from immigrant parents tend to focus more on education--is limited to any particular race, but is a byproduct of the immigrants themselves. In order to leave their home countries, they had to have the personality characteristics which granted them escape. When coming from areas that are not easy to emigrate from, this is commonly through scholastic achievement. It certainly was th…

"kids from immigrant parents tend to focus more on education" Or, more accurately, kids from voluntary immigrant parents tend to focus more on education. C.f. Voluntary and Involuntary Minorities: A Cultural-Ecological Theory of School Performance with Some Implications for Education. Ogbu himself is actually a Nigerian.

I took a class recently on the sociology of education. We focused heavily on Ogbu -- he has done outstanding work that is worth a look from any layman.

Re: Why are Black Nerds so Unpopular?

#29

Post by tarkin2 »

andres wrote: post #25

I have noticed the same phenomenon in the black and hispanic community as wumi. I think PG's explanation is still valid though. Kids choose popularity over intelligence because becoming successful by being smart seems to be more difficult than becoming successful by being popular. There have not been many visible examples of blacks and hispanics who became successful by being smart so when a child has to choose betwe…

"Kids choose popularity over intelligence because becoming successful by being smart seems to be more difficult than becoming successful by being popular. "

I quite agree. More generally, it's about increasing one's social ranking in relation to others. And culture (not limited to ethnic) plays a huge part in that.

Someone posted earlier that a kid would be popular if he were simply better than others at something. But this disregards culture, not just black, either. (I noticed the same thing in the schools I went to - British and all white).

For instance, certain strands of hip-hop seem to laud brash and expensive jewelery. If a kid grows up with this influence, he will internalise this and laud anyone he sees who exhibits similar property. He would not think to do the same with anyone who announces he has read a certain book because he has not grown up to laud this achievement, because of his exposure to this micro-culture.

Excellent article by the way!

Re: Why are Black Nerds so Unpopular?

#30

Post by arvid »

DaniFong wrote: post #15
rokhayakebe wrote: post #6

Wumi, color does not have much to do with popularity. Popularity depends on what you do better than the average guy and where you do it. In America (where Hollywood and Sports are kings) if you play football better than 98% of your schoolmates you are likely to be popular. The same does not hold truth for a top programmer within is high school. In some parts of your continent, yo could be the best soccer player in th…

I don't think ethnicity has so little to do with it. In african american culture it seems, expression of peer disrespect is very powerful.

This is particularly true. Conformism is particularly strong in the black community. In college I had two good black friends. Both who grew up middle class and smart Both who were ostracized for having white friends. One liked heavy metal, computers and video games. One I roomed with for a year and he was harassed about it. We would receive threatening anonymous phone calls at all hours. If I answered, they would hang up. Eventually the campus police were able to trace the calls and we found out that it involved several people.
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