Live data from Hacker News

Why are Black Nerds so Unpopular?

davidadewumi.com

11–20 of 69 posts

Re: Why are Black Nerds so Unpopular?

#11
Both Paul Graham and Wumi are off the mark.

You see, unpopular people are people who have not learned to play the game successfully. There are two competitions going on in schools:

1. Be as good as you can be socially 2. Be as good as you can be regarding intellectual development

Every student will want to have the maximum of both those things, but the problem is that most people tend to choose one path and then work to excel at it. The most popular kids are as likely to be just as successful as the most intelligent nerds. It takes a bit of skill from the other branch to land at the top of either branch, and so those at the top will usually be successful people.

The problem is that these two branches seem to be exclusive. To be intellectually at the top, you have to forgo a lot of the social activities that allow you develop the necessary skills to get to the top of social ladder. And to be socially at the top, you lack the time to study, so you fall behind intellectually.

This is not about school in general - it's about life. To develop a skill, you need to focus on the skill, and your social life drops correspondingly.

But there is this middle ground. The people who know how to strike that balance between the two paths. The ones who are aware of the social hierarchies, and who make sure they do not drop in value socially. The popular kids who spend enough time studying, that their scores still remain good enough for them to do what they want to do.

There are a LOT of people who belong to that middle ground. But you know what, they don't write articles on the internet, because they have nothing to complain about! They liked high school and ended up doing well there. A lot of them are doing way better than the nerds who complain about how unpopular they were.

High school was your first taste of business. In business you need to develop your product, but you also need to make your sales. You cannot concentrate on one exclusively and leave the other away. Both require equal time and are equally important.

That's what these nerds don't recognize. They think there is some conspiracy against them - no, you just did not understand the system well enough to play it properly. If you went back in time now, would you not be able to do it better?

Re: Why are Black Nerds so Unpopular?

#12
post #9
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there many people living today whose parents were involuntary immigrants?

'The most popular destination for asylum seekers of all nationalities in 2007 was the US, with an estimated 49,200 new asylum claims' http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7301985.stm

Hmm, that would seem to make them involuntary emigrants rather than involuntary immigrants, but I see what you mean.

Re: Why are Black Nerds so Unpopular?

#13
Is it really just wearing the right clothes that makes you popular? Maybe the "nerds" are just fooling themselves, making excuses for their social ineptness?

What exactly defines nerd anyway? Not being able to talk straight to people? Doing weird things? But what is weird? Maybe building your own radio with nobody to talk to was weird, but what if you used your electronics skills to build fancy effects for your electric guitar and proceeded to rock the school?

Maybe it is rather the other way round: being unpopular causes nerdiness (in some lucky cases). I guess you can be smart and popular at the same time, but if you are not popular, it really frees a lot of time for thinking. And if you are lucky, you'll start thinking about something that comes in useful later on.

Re: Why are Black Nerds so Unpopular?

#14

Both Paul Graham and Wumi are off the mark. You see, unpopular people are people who have not learned to play the game successfully. There are two competitions going on in schools: 1. Be as good as you can be socially 2. Be as good as you can be regarding intellectual development Every student will want to have the maximum of both those things, but the problem is that most people tend to choose one path and then work…

I don't see how you're disagreeing with pg (and I haven't read wumi's post). IIRC, Paul's essay also makes the argument that nerds would rather pursue their nerdy interests rather than abandon them in favor of investing more time/energy in being popular. I don't think nerds wish they were popular, they just wish everyone would leave them alone instead of hating and hassling them. Sure, they may wonder why they're unpopular, but once they understand that it's a tradeoff between nerdiness and popularity, they'd rather keep the nerdy interests. The painful part is that they might not come to understand this tradeoff until long after HS.

Re: Why are Black Nerds so Unpopular?

#15

Wumi, color does not have much to do with popularity. Popularity depends on what you do better than the average guy and where you do it. In America (where Hollywood and Sports are kings) if you play football better than 98% of your schoolmates you are likely to be popular. The same does not hold truth for a top programmer within is high school. In some parts of your continent, yo could be the best soccer player in th…

I don't think ethnicity has so little to do with it. In african american culture it seems, expression of peer disrespect is very powerful.

Re: Why are Black Nerds so Unpopular?

#16
post #9
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are there many people living today whose parents were involuntary immigrants?

'The most popular destination for asylum seekers of all nationalities in 2007 was the US, with an estimated 49,200 new asylum claims' http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7301985.stm

Jewish immigrants from the former USSR are extremely successful in the US, even though they weren't quite voluntary immigrants.

Re: Why are Black Nerds so Unpopular?

#17

Both Paul Graham and Wumi are off the mark. You see, unpopular people are people who have not learned to play the game successfully. There are two competitions going on in schools: 1. Be as good as you can be socially 2. Be as good as you can be regarding intellectual development Every student will want to have the maximum of both those things, but the problem is that most people tend to choose one path and then work…

I'm not sure where my post would lead you to suggest that there is no middle ground. In fact I mention that (partially) by virtue of being a good athlete, I happened to garner a fair amount of popularity. In fact, from your comments I'm not sure if you read what I wrote at all.

Really, if you've been to public high school in America (or, as I noted, several other countries), popularity is derived mostly from good looks/general attractiveness, athletic prowess, or popularity by association (whether your siblings or your best friends).

(edit: for blacks, this could and does include an affinity for hip-hop culture -- dancing, rapping, beat boxin, etc., and by good looks/attractiveness, per the article, I am inferring general outward appearance, i.e. clothes, shoes, fitted caps, etc.)

There's nothing to game about the system, if you're attractive, a great athlete, or have really popular friends, you in turn, will be popular.

I was at least one of those three things.

If you're not one of those three things, it's highly unlikely that you are (or were) very popular.

You're really just painting a broad brush when you say 'that's what these nerds don't recognize ...you just did not understand the system well enough to play it properly.'

Really? There's not a conspiracy at all -- in black culture, especially amongst the youth of today, intelligence is most often looked down upon and something generally avoided, to which much of what I wrote concerned.

I think you're confusing my reflection for complaints. (edit: I realize now you're just making a broad swipe at all nerd culture, apparently, and not actually rebutting my writing.)

Re: Why are Black Nerds so Unpopular?

#18
post #7
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"kids from immigrant parents tend to focus more on education" Or, more accurately, kids from voluntary immigrant parents tend to focus more on education. C.f. Voluntary and Involuntary Minorities: A Cultural-Ecological Theory of School Performance with Some Implications for Education. Ogbu himself is actually a Nigerian.

Are there many people living today whose parents were involuntary immigrants?

[deleted]

Re: Why are Black Nerds so Unpopular?

#19

Both Paul Graham and Wumi are off the mark. You see, unpopular people are people who have not learned to play the game successfully. There are two competitions going on in schools: 1. Be as good as you can be socially 2. Be as good as you can be regarding intellectual development Every student will want to have the maximum of both those things, but the problem is that most people tend to choose one path and then work…

[deleted]

Re: Why are Black Nerds so Unpopular?

#20
post #17

Both Paul Graham and Wumi are off the mark. You see, unpopular people are people who have not learned to play the game successfully. There are two competitions going on in schools: 1. Be as good as you can be socially 2. Be as good as you can be regarding intellectual development Every student will want to have the maximum of both those things, but the problem is that most people tend to choose one path and then work…

I'm not sure where my post would lead you to suggest that there is no middle ground. In fact I mention that (partially) by virtue of being a good athlete, I happened to garner a fair amount of popularity. In fact, from your comments I'm not sure if you read what I wrote at all. Really, if you've been to public high school in America (or, as I noted, several other countries), popularity is derived mostly from good loo…

Does your name not usually have an n in it? And is it not usually a girls name?

I read your article to the end. This black culture looking down on intelligence thing is not new or insightful. I've read about that lots of time on the internet. Black culture does not look down on intelligence. It looks down on nerdiness.

Let's imagine there is some really cool black guy - let's say the 50 cent of your high school. He does all the 'in' things and wears the right shoes etc. He also is consistently the best in the class. NOBODY would look down on him, rather, he'd be regarded with extreme awe. He'd be monster cool, and still effortlessly ace all exams.

Looking good is an easy way to be popular, but there are lots of terrible looking gangster like figures who are quite popular in high schools.

Being popular is about standing out in a manner that makes people want to follow you. There are many ways to do so, and each of those ways can be artificially created.

It's no god given thing.

I don't get what you're trying to say in your last sentence, but I never implied that pg was some superdork.

Post reply on HN