IBM looking for 12 years’ experience in Kubernetes administration • Hacker News Board

Re: IBM looking for 12 years’ experience in Kubernetes administration

#171

Post by koheripbal » Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 2:43 PM UTC

jarym wrote: post #136

juped wrote: post #22

> I saw a job post the other day. > It required 4+ years of experience in FastAPI. > I couldn't apply as I only have 1.5+ years of experience since I created that thing. https://twitter.com/tiangolo/status/1281946592459853830

This happened to me - got a call from a recruiter who said client needed 10 years. I replied 'I was a teenager back then' to which she said 'so you don't have enough experience?'. I responded 'Well I helped create the thing, it hasn't been around 10 years'. Silence followed, I was thoroughly dis-interested after that.

> I was thoroughly dis-interested after that.

Why? The experience and intelligence of the recruiter has almost zero correlation to the experience and intelligence of the people you'd be working with.

Recruiting people / HR are just an administrative barrier to get through. Once you speak to the actual team you'd be working with, you can start being more discerning of the quality of the people.

Re: IBM looking for 12 years’ experience in Kubernetes administration

#172

Post by koheripbal » Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 2:45 PM UTC

mcherm wrote: post #55

codingdave wrote: post #10

Recruiters putting silly time requirements on skills is nothing new. My favorite moment of this type was at a meetup for .NET, where a recruiter came in and asked for too many years of experience, and the entire room burst out laughing. She just smiled, accepted the grief we all were giving her, and changed the job description to be accurate. I forget the exact wording she used, but I remember the gist of her respons…

I get that she was actually a nice person who simply didn't know when .NET was invented. But I do not accept that she made a harmless and easily fixed error on the job requirements because of this. Frankly, I'm not that concerned that the job requirements demanded more years of .NET experience then it was possible to have. I am more concerned about all the other requirements that were listed on that job description w…

If you are expecting perfection then the world is going to be disappointing, in general.

Re: IBM looking for 12 years’ experience in Kubernetes administration

#173

Post by mcherm » Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 2:48 PM UTC

koheripbal wrote: post #171

jarym wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This happened to me - got a call from a recruiter who said client needed 10 years. I replied 'I was a teenager back then' to which she said 'so you don't have enough experience?'. I responded 'Well I helped create the thing, it hasn't been around 10 years'. Silence followed, I was thoroughly dis-interested after that.

> I was thoroughly dis-interested after that. Why? The experience and intelligence of the recruiter has almost zero correlation to the experience and intelligence of the people you'd be working with. Recruiting people / HR are just an administrative barrier to get through. Once you speak to the actual team you'd be working with, you can start being more discerning of the quality of the people.

> Why? The experience and intelligence of the recruiter has almost zero correlation to the experience and intelligence of the people you'd be working with.

It shouldn't. A well-run company should refuse to work with recruiters who lack experience and intelligence.

Re: IBM looking for 12 years’ experience in Kubernetes administration

#174

Post by mlthoughts2018 » Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 2:49 PM UTC

nix23 wrote: post #97

22 years in-deep Kernel development NOT older than 30 years. Fluent English (please Scottish accent), Chinese (Teochew) and Yarawi (written and spoken) Additional bonus >22y in a DevOp leader position. We welcome you in a team of hard working individuals, we are a startup so please bring your own chair and table and computer, but we have a really good coffeemaker (bring your own beans/milk/sugar) 24x7 Availability...…

This is so painfully accurate. The company will also say you need to be “passionate about their mission” and “ready to disrupt the future” - for a company that makes cell phone cases or an app to subscribe to your favorite candy.

Re: IBM looking for 12 years’ experience in Kubernetes administration

#175

Post by gruez » Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 2:50 PM UTC

dharmab wrote: post #104

af65t34f75693 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only thing I don't like about it is how every line in this tweet ends in a 'fitting' emoji I'm not even that old (born in the 80s), but is that the style adults use now?

Adults have been using emoticons in casual online conversation for decades. Certainly for most of your lifetime.

But do they put one at the end of every sentence like it was punctuation?

Re: IBM looking for 12 years’ experience in Kubernetes administration

#176

Post by pcmoney » Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 2:50 PM UTC

koheripbal wrote: post #171

jarym wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This happened to me - got a call from a recruiter who said client needed 10 years. I replied 'I was a teenager back then' to which she said 'so you don't have enough experience?'. I responded 'Well I helped create the thing, it hasn't been around 10 years'. Silence followed, I was thoroughly dis-interested after that.

> I was thoroughly dis-interested after that. Why? The experience and intelligence of the recruiter has almost zero correlation to the experience and intelligence of the people you'd be working with. Recruiting people / HR are just an administrative barrier to get through. Once you speak to the actual team you'd be working with, you can start being more discerning of the quality of the people.

No, never this. If the hiring manager won’t be your manager or in the same tree, run. If they cant be bothered to read the job description they put out, run. If the technology is critical enough to need previous experience managers should know enough about it to not make this mistake.

Hiring is the most important thing managers do. If they suck at that it really doesn’t matter if they are great at other things.

Re: IBM looking for 12 years’ experience in Kubernetes administration

#177

Post by knowhy » Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 2:51 PM UTC

frankie_t wrote: post #52

knowhy wrote: post #41

Obviously a typo, they probably meant 1-2 years, which is realistic. While this is probably not actually the case here, I see it quite often that companies have unrealistic expectations when it comes to work experience with technologies like k8s. For example it is quite common here in Berlin to expect 4+ years of k8s experience. Which is unrealistic to find taking into account that k8s initial release was 6 years ago…

Sometimes they just look for a reason to cut the salary or make you more overtime-compliant, or something else. Basically a tool to squeeze out more. The routine is to take you but make you feel like they do you a favor by taking you with less exp than it was originally stated.

Yes, you are right, that might be a reason. But work experience is a huge factor in infrastructure engineering. From my perspective it is what counts the most. Companies usually would like see that a candidate already worked on a similar stack, so that she/he won't make stupid beginner mistakes on your payroll and potentially ruining your business.

Re: IBM looking for 12 years’ experience in Kubernetes administration

#178

Post by heavyset_go » Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 2:51 PM UTC

koheripbal wrote: post #171

jarym wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This happened to me - got a call from a recruiter who said client needed 10 years. I replied 'I was a teenager back then' to which she said 'so you don't have enough experience?'. I responded 'Well I helped create the thing, it hasn't been around 10 years'. Silence followed, I was thoroughly dis-interested after that.

> I was thoroughly dis-interested after that. Why? The experience and intelligence of the recruiter has almost zero correlation to the experience and intelligence of the people you'd be working with. Recruiting people / HR are just an administrative barrier to get through. Once you speak to the actual team you'd be working with, you can start being more discerning of the quality of the people.

> Why? The experience and intelligence of the recruiter has almost zero correlation to the experience and intelligence of the people you'd be working with.

Good recruiters are able to match a candidate's skills with the skills required for the role they're recruiting for. If they can't do that, they are bad at their job and are more often than not wasting the time you could be spending with a recruiter who knows the industry they're working in.

If they got that aspect wrong, what else are they getting wrong? Are you willing to waste time and money going through the interview process just to find out that the role isn't a good fit, even though the recruiter said it was?

Re: IBM looking for 12 years’ experience in Kubernetes administration

#179

Post by tzs » Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 2:52 PM UTC

jasoneckert wrote: post #89

Overstating requisites, or asking for far too many requisites for a particular job and then settling for less has been a widespread practice since for as long as I can remember in technology fields. When I was younger, I never thought of it as a bad thing, since it scared away those who weren't bold enough to apply for the job - ultimately reducing the competition for the jobs that I've applied for. Over the past 3 d…

> When I was younger, I never thought of it as a bad thing, since it scared away those who weren't bold enough to apply for the job - ultimately reducing the competition for the jobs that I've applied for.

Sometimes it reduces it too far, though, and the company fails to fill the position.

I did not apply to a job that seemed otherwise an ideal fit because they wanted a master's degree in CS, and my degree was a mere bachelor's in mathematics from Caltech. (At the time, Caltech's CS program only offered graduate degrees. They had all the usual undergraduate CS courses, which I had taken, but simply had not yet set up a degree program for the bachelor's so all us would-be CS majors actually got our degrees in something else. Usually math or physics or EE).

Six months later they were still looking and a headhunter sent them my resume. I was quickly hired.

By asking for more than they actually needed, the position went unfilled for at least 6 extra months and they had to pay a headhunter 10% of my salary.

Re: IBM looking for 12 years’ experience in Kubernetes administration

#180

Post by mcherm » Sun, Jul 12, 2020, 2:53 PM UTC

koheripbal wrote: post #172

mcherm wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get that she was actually a nice person who simply didn't know when .NET was invented. But I do not accept that she made a harmless and easily fixed error on the job requirements because of this. Frankly, I'm not that concerned that the job requirements demanded more years of .NET experience then it was possible to have. I am more concerned about all the other requirements that were listed on that job description w…

If you are expecting perfection then the world is going to be disappointing, in general.

I am sure perfection cannot be reached. I am hoping that we can recognize how far from perfection we are and adjust our systems to take account of that.

For the criminal justice system in the US, one of the clearest implications is that we should allow lawyers -- or at least judges -- to inform jurors about the basics of what we know about witness reliability. Because a huge portion of those we now know to have been falsely convicted we're convicted solely or primarily on the basis of witnesses.

For hiring, I think it means we should deemphasize filtering out candidates using some basic thresholds (like X years experience with Y) and emphasize opportunities for the candidates to demonstrate the skills they will use on the job.