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U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

reuters.com

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Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#991

Post by pbhjpbhj »

hvs wrote: post #442
pbhjpbhj wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is Rome important here? I can see the symmetry between Rome and what USA currently has - different rich powerful groups arguing and ignoring half the people, for example; rife corruption and nepotism - but how is Rome a model for a democracy, and one that seeks (in theory) not to divide the people into ruling and subservient classes at that?

Because the U.S. isn't a democracy it's one that was explicitly founded on the model of the Roman Republic, albeit one with a written constitution.

The rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, for all (per Tho.Jefferson) seems pretty democratic?

Was the founders intention to have a super-class who had political determination?

Could you expand a little on your point?

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#992

Post by koheripbal »

skissane wrote: post #679
koheripbal wrote: post #458

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not? If they're on tribal land, what's to stop the tribe from governing?

Tribal governments only have criminal jurisdiction over crimes committed by Native Americans (an enrolled member of the tribe, or an enrolled member of some other federally recognised tribe). If the perpetrator is not Native American, the tribal government and courts cannot deal with the case, only local/state/federal courts and authorities can. (There is an exception to this rule, created by Congress, that domestic…

No, the big issue is the collection of taxes.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#993

Post by koheripbal »

orthecreedence wrote: post #594
mcny wrote: post #548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Congress will have no choice but to make a law breaking the promise and repatriating the land out of Native American hands. Oklahoma seems to have only five US Representatives (and two senators of course). It would be ridiculous if seven Congress members can hold a nation hostage. I don't understand the full implications of this ruling but I don't see how I can support breaking more promises because of political ga…

What do you mean? One senator has been holding the nation hostage for years. One .

That's obviously not true. He LEADS the others who choose to follow him and use him as a scapegoat. Big difference.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#994

Post by koheripbal »

modmans2nd wrote: post #694
falcrist wrote: post #513

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes I wish the SCOTUS would reinterpret things that were obviously wrong... but I'd much rather have the SCOTUS interpret the law as it was intended, and have Congress fix the actual problems with the law.

“As intended “ isn’t “as it is written “. See the recent ruling that came down saying that LGBTQ people are protected under the civil rights act of 1967 because the words are very plainly written. Just because the people in congress probably didn’t intend to protect the LGBTQ community given the culture at the time the WORDS of the law are very clear.

I mean.... that case was neither "as it is written" nor "as intended".

In that case the court simply ruled on what was morally right.

LGBTQ people were not intended to be protected in the 1967 law, nor was it written as such.

I agree they deserve protections and Congress should amend the law as such. It's sad SCOTUS is made to break its role to fix this.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#995

Post by koheripbal »

jeffdavis wrote: post #744
koheripbal wrote: post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The entire city of Tulsa is there - literally millions of non-native Americans live in this area. Congress will have no choice but to make a law breaking the promise and repatriating the land out of Native American hands.

What are the consequences to people in Tulsa who aren't tribe members? Landowners who aren't tribe members? Can the tribe expel them and confiscate the land?

Real estate prices will likely drop.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#996

Post by DougN7 »

beenBoutIT wrote: post #556
rudolph9 wrote: post #528

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think use of regulated drugs is legal during a religious service https://www.pewforum.org/2006/02/21/supreme-court-rules-that... And, again I think, reservations are exempt from state laws/taxes and to certain extent able to make/enforce their own laws/taxes but they still need to follow federal laws.

The only way to stop our neverending war on drugs is a Constitutional amendment that guarantees every American the right to consume anything they want for any reason. In the next several decades there will be un unprecedented number of elderly Americans living below the poverty line with no pension and medical issues they can't afford to fix - euthanasia will become something of a nuclear option that they'll want ava…

That will also require removing seat belt and motorcycle helmet laws and probably many others meant to protect ourselves. The problem is few decisions ever affect only the one making the decision when families and society are involved.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#997

Post by Klinky »

sam36 wrote: post #979
ivalm wrote: post #879

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somehow in all of this you forgot the word genocide. Oh wait...

Debatable on whether "genocide" is the correct term. But sure, use it if you want. "Genocide: The systematic and widespread extermination or attempted extermination of a national, racial, religious, or ethnic group." But I don't think that the giving of land (no matter how terrible the land is) for a group to live on truly counts as "attempted extermination".

Seems like you could say since the Nazis moved the Jews to ghettos and had plans to move them to "Madagascar" it wasn't genocide either.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#998

Post by int_19h »

dr_dshiv wrote: post #509
brobdingnagians wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do applaud that thinking; I hope it sets a precedent that can be used more widely. I hope they apply it more widely to things they don't necessarily ideologically agree with. Civil society needs more honesty and dedication to keeping your word, even when that is painful. That might lead to people thinking more carefully about where they stand and what they say as well.

Amen. This isn't a nonsequitor, I swear: why can't freedom of religion be used to legalize drugs? And, why can't Indian reservations, especially, sell what they please?

> why can't freedom of religion be used to legalize drugs?

It can, and has been - this is the origin of the so-called "Religious Freedom Restoration Acts".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_Freedom_Restoration_...

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#999

Post by int_19h »

mirimir wrote: post #732
ISL wrote: post #49

I found the conclusion compelling. I haven't yet had enough time this morning to read the dissent thoughtfully. https://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/19pdf/18-9526_9okb.pdf "The federal government promised the Creek a reservation in perpetuity. Over time, Congress has diminished that reservation. It has sometimes restricted and other times expanded the Tribe’s authority. But Congress has never withdrawn the promised…

Wow. That is just so damn amazing! Also, TFA notes: > In a joint statement, the state, the Creek Nation and the other four of what is known as the “Five Tribes” of Oklahoma said they were making “substantial progress” toward an agreement on shared jurisdiction that they would present to the federal government. The other tribes are the Cherokee, Chickasaw, Choctaw and Seminole. So I wonder whether more of Oklahoma cou…

It would be interesting if the long-term outcome will be the revival of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_of_Sequoyah.

Re: U.S. Supreme Court deems half of Oklahoma a Native American reservation

#1000

Post by int_19h »

rkuykendall-com wrote: post #336
ponker wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What Gorsuch's opinion does directly imply is that the "promise" to the Creek can be revoked by Congress at any time, i.e. it's hardly a "promise" at all.

Literally nothing in the legal system is permanent for perpetuity. Even the constitution can be amended in any way. All laws, treaties, etc. can be undone with enough effort.

Not quite. It is, in theory, possible to pass an amendment to the constitution, that would prohibit further amendments to parts of it. Quite a few countries have such "immutable clauses" in their constitutions.
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