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Apple supplier Foxconn to invest $1B in India, sources say

reuters.com

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Re: Apple supplier Foxconn to invest $1B in India, sources say

#141

Post by chii »

h0l0cube wrote: post #112
em500 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure if I follow your thought process, are you suggesting that people in developing and underdeveloped nations used to have more leisure time in the past than they do now?

My thought process is that there are large populations in developing nations are so trapped in debt they can do nothing but work all their waking hours, and they would not be paid money that would permit increasing their value as a human resource. This is a phenomenon that is happening right now, today. It's effectively the same as slavery... I'm not saying 'it used to be better', but I'm not buying the line that glo…

> if there's a place in the world where it is possible to pay someone only to work

that place is _everywhere_ on planet earth. Calling the need for somebody to work 'effective slavery' is wrong. Slavery is involuntary. work is voluntary.

Re: Apple supplier Foxconn to invest $1B in India, sources say

#142

Post by agumonkey »

kodablah wrote: post #12

> With India’s labour cheaper compared with China, and the gradual expansion of its supplier base here, Apple will be able to use the country as an export hub While there are negatives, I appreciate how globalization of manufacturing helps lift poorer economies (albeit it slowly and not always agreeing with the politics of the newly-built middle classes). One might expect manufacturing in mid-Africa in two decades.

Africa as an industrial hub would probably be better than a lot of poverty and exploitation yet somehow it breaks the usual picture of that continent :)

Re: Apple supplier Foxconn to invest $1B in India, sources say

#143

Post by shan503 »

d3nj4l wrote: post #31
0xFFFE wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is appalling how despite the availability of information online, people still choose not to verify what they hear on the MSM. Here is the link to the Citizenship Amendment Act of 2019 on GOI website. It's only a 2 page document. http://egazette.nic.in/WriteReadData/2019/214646.pdf It was amended to accommodate persecuted minorities from *neighboring countries" of India. It has nothing to do with the Citizens of In…

This is blatant disinformation by omitting context. The CAA itself is discriminatory, since it does not apply to muslims, but in the context of the National Register of Citizens ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Register_of_Citizens ) it becomes even more sinister. The NRC requires people to prove their citizenship through documentation, which is very difficult for large parts of India's population, who might…

The guidelines for a nation wide NRC have not been formulated. What you're pedaling is nothing more than a conspiracy theory

Re: Apple supplier Foxconn to invest $1B in India, sources say

#144

Post by cpursley »

sufyanadam wrote: post #132
jariel wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those are not in the 'top 10' things required to support an electronics manufacturing base. Africa is the last place any electronics are going to be made, and it's completely unsuitable to their situation, at least currently. Manufacturing any kind of electronics any scale requires a fair bit of sophistication. There is a lot of know how in putting together lines, knowing what to optimise, managing supply chains. I j…

I have to disagree with you on almost all points. I lived in East Africa for 20 years, and my observation of the African people was that their intelligence was similar to what you'd find anywhere in silicon valley. The problems you mentioned with financial services was solved way back in 1999 and rivals any mobile / cashless system anywhere else in the world, and that was long before things like square came out in th…

I don't think people are suggesting folks in Africa have a lower IQ, they're stating that they have less training an expertise (required for this type of manufacturing). I guess the big question of this is the case is how to get people there skilled up. I wonder how China did it before becoming a manufacturing juggernaut.

Re: Apple supplier Foxconn to invest $1B in India, sources say

#145

Post by MrsPeaches »

achow wrote: post #57
pankajdoharey wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually I think, the most ideal countries to expand manufacturing to are African countries, they have some of the same advantages once china had. 1. Mineral Resources. 2. Cheap Labour. 3. High Density of Lanthanide and Actinide group minerals. China also has a fourth advantage which is a good mix of Production, Manufacturing and Electronics Engineers. Which Africa doesn't have. On the other hand India doesn't have t…

The main issue anywhere is the foresight and tenacity of the political (ruling) class. They have to do things which are long term by cutting back on short term and populist decisions. That is one thing that is holding even India back. In democratic setup it is very difficult to take a long term view particularly when that comes with short term pain - the govt would be out in next election. Africa should learn both fr…

Just FYI, Africa is not a country. It’s the second largest continent on earth.

Re: Apple supplier Foxconn to invest $1B in India, sources say

#146

Post by dhd7r7eu3 »

agumonkey wrote: post #142
kodablah wrote: post #12

> With India’s labour cheaper compared with China, and the gradual expansion of its supplier base here, Apple will be able to use the country as an export hub While there are negatives, I appreciate how globalization of manufacturing helps lift poorer economies (albeit it slowly and not always agreeing with the politics of the newly-built middle classes). One might expect manufacturing in mid-Africa in two decades.

Africa as an industrial hub would probably be better than a lot of poverty and exploitation yet somehow it breaks the usual picture of that continent :)

Better in what sense? India might be poor (not a bad thing for attracting investment) but it's stable compared to Africa. South Africa is sort of stable but not compared to India and overall there's just no reason to invest in a region where you might have all of your equipment lost or stolen. Altruistic investors might feel differently of course but by definition they care less about returns then most other investors.

Re: Apple supplier Foxconn to invest $1B in India, sources say

#147

Post by cko »

distances wrote: post #134
tesseracted wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm actually Indian, have no interest in aggrandizing one group over another, don't know who Stephen Molyneux is, and don't care about white supremacy & colonialism or think it relevant to my point that intelligence and organized behavior is more apparent in China than it is in Africa. Many people who, admittedly after a lot of pretense and equivocation, agree that they care about what is effectively intelligence in…

You may want to be aware that in western groups any talk about national or racial intelligence is usually considered pure racism. I assume it's not like that in India; I've also had a short discussion about this earlier with an Indian colleague when the topic of intelligence somehow came up.

If there is some sort of ethnic basis for differences in intelligence (independent of environmental factors such as poverty, culture, etc.) what would be the practical implications of this data?

It seems to me that in the future, economic value will be correlated with the ability to work with increasingly abstract things (which I assume IQ is trying to measure).

Wouldn't the natural tendency to value human worth based on their IQ? Of course not, you might say. But imagine there's some future with a permanent underclass of lower IQ people, subsidized by very high marginal tax rates / UBI. I can see our human nature justify some sort of social Darwinist policies.

Edit: what a weird tangent this thread has taken.

Re: Apple supplier Foxconn to invest $1B in India, sources say

#149

Post by h0l0cube »

chii wrote: post #141
h0l0cube wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My thought process is that there are large populations in developing nations are so trapped in debt they can do nothing but work all their waking hours, and they would not be paid money that would permit increasing their value as a human resource. This is a phenomenon that is happening right now, today. It's effectively the same as slavery... I'm not saying 'it used to be better', but I'm not buying the line that glo…

> if there's a place in the world where it is possible to pay someone only to work that place is _everywhere_ on planet earth. Calling the need for somebody to work 'effective slavery' is wrong. Slavery is involuntary. work is voluntary.

You might have misread me, but I could have been clearer.

A distinction can be drawn between someone who has the benefit of a wage where they can save money, and without. If the options are, work somewhere that pays just enough to live, or perish - it's not really an option.

Let's say that someone who, in an alternate universe would have the aptitude to work as a Software Engineer in Silicon Valley, happened to be born in the poorest province in a developing nation, and the only options available were work day and night, with enough pay for food and lodging, no internet access. Is that the same as someone born in Europe, has public education, access to the internet, uses the library, becomes a developer, gets hired by FAANG... etc?

Re: Apple supplier Foxconn to invest $1B in India, sources say

#150

Post by em500 »

h0l0cube wrote: post #139
em500 wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The ILO studies ends in 2000 and shows a slight increase in the US near the end. Here's what happened after 2000: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/AVHWPEUSA065NRUG (Note that it's not clear if decreases in worked hours are actually desirable. Some people believe many part-timers would want to work more if they could.)

Yeah, given the dips corresponding to tech crash and financial crisis, it could be more an effect of underemployment, rather than more leisure time, or less overwork. Given the relatively weak social welfare policy in the US (amongst developed nations), that would match with the narrative of social unrest in lower income brackets in recent years.

Try to avoid fitting the data to your narrative.

more hours worked = slavery

less hours worked = underemployment

Are there any measures at all that would convince you that the overall the world is better than it used to be?

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