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Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

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Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#741

Post by rimjongun »

dahfizz wrote: post #649
hpen wrote: post #629

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The circuitry can't be that complex. Meaning the likelihood of a bug being pretty low. I mean come on, it's a wire attached to the camera power source with a resistor and a LED.

How do you know? How do you know how the LED is implemented?

Is this what you think passes for informed commentary?

There are innumerable things I take for granted. Sure, I assume Ifixit isn’t a CIA front and their tear downs fairly accurately represent what ships to the customer. Barring hopeless threat models, the light is a decent trade off.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#744

Post by smsm42 »

acdha wrote: post #332
ggus wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> to prevent the single-frame-grab attack. prevent? by the time the LED turns on, the attack has already happened.

Prevent it from being undetectable

Provided you looked at the camera light in those 3 seconds.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#745

Post by vms20591 »

Even if we trust that without the LED being on, the camera is never on, it does actually provide little consolation. Unless Apple has covered every single scenario, where any program trying to access the camera, can't do so without the user intervention.

People accidentally leave their laptop lids open, and what if the app they trusted earlier isn't so anymore and turns on the camera, streaming the content before it.

Unless Apple has a solution to prevent all these, they shouldn't be giving such advise.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#746

Post by smsm42 »

mthoms wrote: post #274
dasudasu wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you have to perpetually watch out for the LED indicator to see if it ever randomly turns on for 3 seconds? And what if it does come up unexpectedly? At this point it's too late and you've already been captured. A mechanical cover that can slide on and off the camera seems like much better security.

You don't "have to" do anything. The point is that the hardware has been designed properly. Combined with the OS-level permissions, it should be assurance enough for the majority of use cases. If you need further assurances, then by all means, use a physical cover.

Properly designed hardware would add one small - and in every way possible, since we've already identified the circuit that drives the single power source - addition. A physical switch that prevents camera from being turned on. Same for the microphone. Unfortunately, this is never done. So people put covers on.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#747

Post by harha »

hummo56 wrote: post #726
Wowfunhappy wrote: post #715

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> First, you have to trust Apple that the indicator _really_ can't be disabled. You also have to trust that there isn't a vulnerability Apple is not aware about that could allow rolling the camera without the light coming on. I have made this point several times throughout this thread, so I apologize for repeating myself: Every laptop Apple has manufactured in the last ten years has an LED connected to the same circu…

That is exactly what OP meant: you need to A) trust that in your actual laptop in front of you, this mechanism is correctly implemented. B) trust that you are not in the vulnerable phase where your LED broke and you did not notice yet. (Especially when you rarely use your camera).

Regarding B: I’m wondering if the camera or the led typically break Would first with a higher probability

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#748

Post by mpartel »

beshrkayali wrote: post #743

Apple should probably make a physical camera cover. I have it on my Thinkpad X1 carbon and I love it. What's missing is physical microphone and wifi switches, I don't know if there's a modern machine that has all three.

https://puri.sm/products/librem-14/ ?

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#749

Post by mrunkel »

tomcooks wrote: post #732

The tones used in this article sound very patronising. Maybe it's the matter of privacy being addressed that gives these "advices" a creepy tone. I'm glad other laptops have more tolerance for accessories that are a couple of mm thick.

Tip: while reading any tone you feel is entirely generated by you.

I just read it and I didn’t get any patronizing or creepy tones.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#750

Post by Natsu »

Wowfunhappy wrote: post #715
bloody-crow wrote: post #648

This statement has a number of issues. First, you have to trust Apple that the indicator _really_ can't be disabled. You also have to trust that there isn't a vulnerability Apple is not aware about that could allow rolling the camera without the light coming on. This has happened in the past [0] and there are known Apple products that are vulnerable, yet the statement never mentions this making you believe it's impos…

> First, you have to trust Apple that the indicator _really_ can't be disabled. You also have to trust that there isn't a vulnerability Apple is not aware about that could allow rolling the camera without the light coming on. I have made this point several times throughout this thread, so I apologize for repeating myself: Every laptop Apple has manufactured in the last ten years has an LED connected to the same circu…

The problem is that the average user has no way to verify this and also the light doesn't prevent the camera from turning on, it merely notifies you that the camera is on.

A manual, physical barrier, especially an aftermarket one, solves those issues. Personally, I use electrical tape.

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