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Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

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Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#241

Post by jorge-d »

dabernathy89 wrote: post #217
reaperducer wrote: post #183

Looking at the comments here, I guess I'm the only one who finds sadness that Apple even has to publish this document. Some of those novelty and promotional camera covers are really quite thick. And it just seems like common sense to me that you wouldn't close a laptop with one of those things on. Just like I wouldn't close my laptop with a pen or a ham sandwich tucked into it. But I guess Apple has had enough compla…

This is the one that destroyed the screen on my 16" MBP. 0.023 inches thick. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07C24NBGL/ref=cm_sw_r_sms_apa_i_T...

It's quite similar to the one I've been using on my 2018 15" MBP for the past two years. Can you give more information on the cause of the problem? Did you close the macbook very firmly and it broke?

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#242

Post by bobloblaw45 »

duxup wrote: post #11

This seems like a pretty mild warning for folks who might stick a bulky cover on their camera and press down / pack their laptop tightly and now have wedged part of the screen open with the cover. I'm a fan of using painters tape.... pretty low profile, easily removed, stays on really well. Also the weird blue glow you get when the camera is on tells you pretty quick "Hey there's a cover on there" where sometimes wit…

I've used a sticker from a banana for years on my work phone.

I'm weird though, I'm one of those people that needs to have their arm twisted to use their camera.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#244

Post by astrange »

bo1024 wrote: post #83

It's so interesting that we've arrived in a state where people, for good reason, cannot trust "their" devices in the slightest. On the computer where you do all your online banking or taxes or whatever, you don't feel safe without sticking something over the camera. Makes me very proud to support Purism laptops with their camera/microphone hardware killswitches and FOSS software (I know FOSS is not the same as secure…

> It's so interesting that we've arrived in a state where people, for good reason, cannot trust "their" devices in the slightest. On the computer where you do all your online banking or taxes or whatever, you don't feel safe without sticking something over the camera.

That really doesn't mean anything, because the people who post on here just like to not trust things. It makes them look cool when they're posting. You can always use evil maids or Russell's teapot or any argument you like as an excuse to be cynical, it's not like it can be disproven.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#245

Post by colordrops »

the-pigeon wrote: post #196
alunchbox wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a reason Zukerberg's laptop has its mic and camera tapped up. It doesn't matter what device you use unless there's a physical switch to disconnect it'll never be safe. Software can ALWAYS have zero days, just because it hasn't been exploited yet doesn't mean it can't be.

But can't you specifically wire the indicator light to always be lit if the camera has power? I don't see Apple claiming they've done that but a correct design would make the indicator light work that way and be related to software at all. Meaning you could only disable the indicator light by physically modifying the device.

Even if they did claim that why should we trust that they did it correctly and without unintentional or intentional vulnerability?

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#246

Post by [deleted] »

planar_vector wrote: post #98

Can someone help me understand the extent of possible damage by having a webcam cover? This might at least inform me if its worth the risk. When Apple says "you might damage your display because the clearance between the display and keyboard is designed to very tight tolerances" , do they mean? - the display itself could have scratches? - the display connector at the hinge has a chance of weakening? - others?

[deleted]

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#247

Post by GrumpyYoungMan »

jb775 wrote: post #203
_bxg1 wrote: post #14

People are suggesting just using tape, but the issue is when you want to un-cover it frequently (which is probably more common now than a few months ago). For a couple dollars you can get a thin, nice-looking little plastic cover that you can actually slide out of the way when you need to use it. Most of these are thin enough not to be a problem, but they vary, and even the really thin ones usually don't quite let yo…

Black electrical tape actually retains stickiness surprisingly well, and it peels off easily.

I'd recommend gaffer's tape instead: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaffer_tape. It's similar to electrical tape but it's designed to leave no residue when peeled off.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#248

Post by dasudasu »

axoltl wrote: post #169
causality0 wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is whether this is a firmware implementation that's just waiting for a 0-day or if the +V for the CMOS sensor is literally wired to the LED. If the latter I'd like to see a picture of it.

Hi! I was the security architect for this feature on recent Macs. The LED is wired to the camera PMIC and is powered by the voltage rail that powers the camera. The PMIC will always remain on if the system has power. Macs newer than 4 or so years also have a feature that forces the LED to stay lit for at least 3 seconds after it has been turned on to prevent the single-frame-grab attack.

So you have to perpetually watch out for the LED indicator to see if it ever randomly turns on for 3 seconds? And what if it does come up unexpectedly? At this point it's too late and you've already been captured. A mechanical cover that can slide on and off the camera seems like much better security.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#249

Post by Spooky23 »

alunchbox wrote: post #185
NovemberWhiskey wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>2013: iSeeYou: Disabling the MacBook Webcam Indicator LED https://jscholarship.library.jhu.edu/handle/1774.2/36569 ... applies only to older Mac notebooks from like 2008 period which are long since obsolete according to Apple's announced support policy. >2016: Your Mac’s Camera Can Be Hacked https://www.intego.com/mac-security-blog/your-macs-camera-ca... . ... refers specifically the exploit above. >2016: Former NSA…

There's a reason Zukerberg's laptop has its mic and camera tapped up. It doesn't matter what device you use unless there's a physical switch to disconnect it'll never be safe. Software can ALWAYS have zero days, just because it hasn't been exploited yet doesn't mean it can't be.

Zuckerberg is probably compromised by multiple nation states in some way at any time.

It’s a very different threat than most people have.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#250

Post by mahaganapati »

alunchbox wrote: post #185
NovemberWhiskey wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>2013: iSeeYou: Disabling the MacBook Webcam Indicator LED https://jscholarship.library.jhu.edu/handle/1774.2/36569 ... applies only to older Mac notebooks from like 2008 period which are long since obsolete according to Apple's announced support policy. >2016: Your Mac’s Camera Can Be Hacked https://www.intego.com/mac-security-blog/your-macs-camera-ca... . ... refers specifically the exploit above. >2016: Former NSA…

There's a reason Zukerberg's laptop has its mic and camera tapped up. It doesn't matter what device you use unless there's a physical switch to disconnect it'll never be safe. Software can ALWAYS have zero days, just because it hasn't been exploited yet doesn't mean it can't be.

Testing on my phone at least, tape does nothing to prevent discernable audio from being recorded. I think the device would need to be encased to block the microphone
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