Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera • Hacker News Board

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#561

Post by saagarjha » Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 1:28 AM UTC

solarkraft wrote: post #426

JadeNB wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't that require the same kind of trust in the correctness of the wiring that is at issue in some other comments? I can see that a camera cover works, but I think I couldn't see that a physical switch was actually interrupting the wiring without doing a teardown.

You want your equipment to be verifiably secure? Boy, wait until you find about what's possible manipulating PCB or processor designs (the Bloomberg fiction piece "The big Hack" illustrates what would be possible with just PCB manipulation). Or firmware or anything else proprietary running with elevated rights (normal ones are already enough to cause a lot of damage on most systems). All you can do is reduce attack s…

A fiction piece isn't a great demonstration of anything, really.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#562

Post by snapit » Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 1:28 AM UTC

gtm1260 wrote: post #20

I was very skeptical of the camera covers, but then through conversations with some of my co-workers, I realized that they weren't being used because people were worried about spies secretly turning on the camera. It was 90% of the time just peace of mind that their camera was actually off, instead of having to find the sometimes hard to see options in video chat programs etc.

The Huawei Mate book X Pro has a key on the keyboard that when pressed flicks up a camera. When it is down it shows a black hole inside the keyboard. When it is up it shows a great angle directly up your nose and typing when in a video call shows your hands really clearly. But it is still an interesting way to do it.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#563

Post by hoka-one-one » Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 1:29 AM UTC

rgbrenner wrote: post #436

As an alternative to a camera cover, use the camera indicator light to determine if your camera is active I've been thinking about privacy all wrong. I thought it was about preventing access to my data... but Apple has cleared up my misunderstanding and now I know that it's just about being notified when my data is stolen. Everyone feel free to post your credit card numbers... your privacy is secure, since your bank…

Actually it would be a huge security risk if everyone posted their CC numbers publicly. Attackers could use their numbers to make purchases, and by the time the purchases show up on the statement the money is already gone.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#564

Post by vulcan01 » Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 1:29 AM UTC

What's the problem with the following? Why are y'all complaining?

> Make sure the camera cover is not thicker than an average piece of printer paper

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#565

Post by symlinkk » Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 1:29 AM UTC

neltnerb wrote: post #463

roenxi wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I expect you are probably correct, but it doesn't really matter. If you don't want to be filmed, the correct engineering approach is not to have a camera pointed at you 24/7. It is a bit like the gun rule of not pointing a gun at things you don't want to shoot - sure, the trigger should be enough of a control, but accidents happen. If you spend your entire life with a camera pointed at your face, your face (and activ…

Indeed, I'm a little surprised Apple didn't follow the Thinkpad approach of simply having a sliding piece with an aperture that extremely obviously blocks the camera. Surely Apple can't seriously think their users would be confused by this and complain... I don't think my desktop computer's webcam is likely to get hacked either but I'm still going to unplug it when I'm not using it. Complex systems are hard to secure…

They probably don't do that because it implicitly says "we don't trust our software to be secure"

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#566

Post by jazzabeanie » Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 1:31 AM UTC

> Covering the built-in camera might also interfere with the ambient light sensor and prevent features like automatic brightness and True Tone from working.

I don’t see the LED come on any time I’m not actually using the camera, so I’m guessing the True Tone sensor is near the camera and it doesn’t actually use the camera. So as long as the sticker only covers the camera it should be ok?

Also, my Mac has a lip around the edge of the screen which is probably thicker than most stickers.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#567

Post by saagarjha » Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 1:32 AM UTC

IvyMike wrote: post #455

nojito wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a guarantee because there’s no way to bypass the wiring to the light to power the camera.

Let me genuinely ask: why do you believe this? Because Apple said so? I simply don't have this level of trust. Because someone disassembled their MacBook and reverse engineered things? And that person is trustworthy and competent? That is better, but even if it was true for the MacBook they reverse engineered, suppliers make tweaks to parts all the time. Can I be sure that my MacBook still has the exact same camera?…

I don't see how Apple could do anything for you in that case.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#568

Post by rmellow » Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 1:33 AM UTC

ObsoleteNerd wrote: post #306

knodi123 wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm a fan of using painters tape.... pretty low profile, easily removed, stays on really well The cleverest solution I've seen that is 1.) easily toggled, and 2.) harmless to screens is a coworker who built a little vinyl veil that attaches to the top back of their monitor. They can flip it forward to cover the camera, or flip it back to use it. But if you close even the tightest of lids with a couple microns of vi…

My wife uses a tiny speck of Blu Tak. It’s soft so just gets squashed flat when the lid closes and it’s designed to be infinitely reusable and come off things without leaving a mark. She just pulls it off and sticks it a few cm to the side of the camera when she wants to use it. She’s been doing it for 3+ years (same piece) and it’s genius.

Same. I dye mine black with a marker so it doesn't stand out so much.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#569

Post by ZekeSulastin » Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 1:33 AM UTC

zelon88 wrote: post #442

None of the proposed solutions do anything to actually stop the camera from taking a picture of you. Sure, you'll see the indicator light up for 3 seconds. But the attacker still got what they needed. Camera covers have nothing to do with identifying compromise. They are strictly for preventing compromise. This is exactly opposite what a camera indicator light does, and thus the indicator should not be considered a "…

The proposed solution and criteria at the bottom of the linked page seem to do exactly what everyone in this thread is asking for.

Re: Don't close your MacBook with a cover over the camera

#570

Post by gsich » Sat, Jul 11, 2020, 1:34 AM UTC

coldtea wrote: post #492

alunchbox wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a reason Zukerberg's laptop has its mic and camera tapped up. It doesn't matter what device you use unless there's a physical switch to disconnect it'll never be safe. Software can ALWAYS have zero days, just because it hasn't been exploited yet doesn't mean it can't be.

> There's a reason Zukerberg's laptop has its mic and camera tapped up. Given the business he is in, the reason is blatant hypocrisy?

Not really.