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Investors say agroforestry is climate friendly and also profitable

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Re: Investors say agroforestry is climate friendly and also profitable

#21

Post by freeqaz »

ForrestN wrote: post #18

I got quite deep into the article, but couldn't get through the morass of PR to understand the basic idea of their agroforestry initiative. At one point, they actually write that a lightbulb went off... but what is the new idea? Is there anyone familiar with this field who tell a clear story of what their idea is, and how planting trees in existing farms will work in practice to accomplish all the results they predic…

I think there are a few benefits that they're (poorly) trying to articulate in the article, so I'll fill in with my own (biased) thoughts. :)

- Growing trees in rows alongside feed crops (like hay) is more profitable for farmers because they gain additional income from fruit trees + lumber sales.

- More trees that get to grow pulls CO2 from the atmosphere and is good for the environment.

- There is a symbiotic relationship with the soil and trees that is beneficial for the health of other plants. This also helps with soil blowing away due to wind barriers + roots holding it down. Less erosion.

- Pests can't travel as easily between "segmented" fields of crops because they are obstructed by trees. This helps mitigate risk for farmers.

- Higher income per acre when you intermix trees in the fields where livestock graze. You can go harvest the fruit trees while the grass grows for the cows to graze on.

The problem is that these changes require time to make. Trees don't sprout up overnight and that's a problem for farmers, but there is a big environmental incentive for it. Maybe the government should step in to incubate these kinds of projects? They may be the only institution with the long-term economic incentive to do so.

Re: Investors say agroforestry is climate friendly and also profitable

#22

Post by jrumbut »

freeqaz wrote: post #16

I think that "mixed" farming like this article describes has a huge potential for automation by the software field. Monocrops[0] (homogeneous fields of crops like corn or soybeans) are easy to build automated robots for. We've been doing that for generations now, starting with combine harvesters[1]. But there are many problems with growing monocrops[2]. Pests are a problem -- they breed and spread disease. And on the…

I think this is a problem seen in many fields, that they are designed around our ability to model them.

Re: Investors say agroforestry is climate friendly and also profitable

#23

Post by Fiahil »

freeqaz wrote: post #16

I think that "mixed" farming like this article describes has a huge potential for automation by the software field. Monocrops[0] (homogeneous fields of crops like corn or soybeans) are easy to build automated robots for. We've been doing that for generations now, starting with combine harvesters[1]. But there are many problems with growing monocrops[2]. Pests are a problem -- they breed and spread disease. And on the…

There is a short explanation on why heterogeneous cropping is not the norm : Harvesting is just extremely difficult. It's not just a software automation problem, it's building the machinery and tractors, training people, gathering feedbacks... Even if you manage to repetitively grow successful combinations of produces, that's only the beginning of the journey.

Farming is an far older industry than software engineering, don't you think humans already tried that in the past 10 000 years ?

Re: Investors say agroforestry is climate friendly and also profitable

#24

Post by mikeg8 »

freeqaz wrote: post #16

I think that "mixed" farming like this article describes has a huge potential for automation by the software field. Monocrops[0] (homogeneous fields of crops like corn or soybeans) are easy to build automated robots for. We've been doing that for generations now, starting with combine harvesters[1]. But there are many problems with growing monocrops[2]. Pests are a problem -- they breed and spread disease. And on the…

I do not believe the solution is to increase robotics to support this field, I think the solution is much more about a paradigm shift from over-optimization aka mono-cultures to a more holistic approach that increases the human-nature connection. We have to heal ourselves to heal the planet and while technology can help, software engineers will not be the heroes on this front, it will be more traditional stewards of the land.

Re: Investors say agroforestry is climate friendly and also profitable

#25

Post by airstrike »

mikeg8 wrote: post #24
freeqaz wrote: post #16

I think that "mixed" farming like this article describes has a huge potential for automation by the software field. Monocrops[0] (homogeneous fields of crops like corn or soybeans) are easy to build automated robots for. We've been doing that for generations now, starting with combine harvesters[1]. But there are many problems with growing monocrops[2]. Pests are a problem -- they breed and spread disease. And on the…

I do not believe the solution is to increase robotics to support this field, I think the solution is much more about a paradigm shift from over-optimization aka mono-cultures to a more holistic approach that increases the human-nature connection. We have to heal ourselves to heal the planet and while technology can help, software engineers will not be the heroes on this front, it will be more traditional stewards of…

The parent is precisely arguing against mono-cultures. I don't see how your reply is really discussing any of the various relevant points he raised.

Right now, all that I understand from your opinion is that you think robots are bad because of mono-cultures, but the parent would argue equating those two things is incorrect.

Re: Investors say agroforestry is climate friendly and also profitable

#26

Post by freeqaz »

Fiahil wrote: post #23
freeqaz wrote: post #16

I think that "mixed" farming like this article describes has a huge potential for automation by the software field. Monocrops[0] (homogeneous fields of crops like corn or soybeans) are easy to build automated robots for. We've been doing that for generations now, starting with combine harvesters[1]. But there are many problems with growing monocrops[2]. Pests are a problem -- they breed and spread disease. And on the…

There is a short explanation on why heterogeneous cropping is not the norm : Harvesting is just extremely difficult. It's not just a software automation problem, it's building the machinery and tractors, training people, gathering feedbacks... Even if you manage to repetitively grow successful combinations of produces, that's only the beginning of the journey. Farming is an far older industry than software engineerin…

It is a hard problem. Historically, people often grew plants in heterogeneous environments because they grew their own crops. Even if it wasn't _all_ of their food, it was still a subset of their food. But it was very labor intensive.

The scale of monocrop farming today with modern tractors is a very new field as well (no pun intended).

With machine learning specifically, I can see a robot arm being able to farm a lot of mixed crops. This is already happening for the most labor-intensive crops like strawberries[0]. Robots are cheap and can work 24/7.

I think it just a matter of time before computers advance enough to be able to perform the basic, repetitive tasks that humans are able to.

0: https://www.therobotreport.com/strawberry-picking-robot-make...

Re: Investors say agroforestry is climate friendly and also profitable

#27

Post by _2d30 »

airstrike wrote: post #25
mikeg8 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not believe the solution is to increase robotics to support this field, I think the solution is much more about a paradigm shift from over-optimization aka mono-cultures to a more holistic approach that increases the human-nature connection. We have to heal ourselves to heal the planet and while technology can help, software engineers will not be the heroes on this front, it will be more traditional stewards of…

The parent is precisely arguing against mono-cultures. I don't see how your reply is really discussing any of the various relevant points he raised. Right now, all that I understand from your opinion is that you think robots are bad because of mono-cultures, but the parent would argue equating those two things is incorrect.

If you read closely their response is basically a Luddite, anti-tech response. Their problem with the parent was that it suggested using technology.

Re: Investors say agroforestry is climate friendly and also profitable

#28

Post by mikeg8 »

freeqaz wrote: post #21
ForrestN wrote: post #18

I got quite deep into the article, but couldn't get through the morass of PR to understand the basic idea of their agroforestry initiative. At one point, they actually write that a lightbulb went off... but what is the new idea? Is there anyone familiar with this field who tell a clear story of what their idea is, and how planting trees in existing farms will work in practice to accomplish all the results they predic…

I think there are a few benefits that they're (poorly) trying to articulate in the article, so I'll fill in with my own (biased) thoughts. :) - Growing trees in rows alongside feed crops (like hay) is more profitable for farmers because they gain additional income from fruit trees + lumber sales. - More trees that get to grow pulls CO2 from the atmosphere and is good for the environment. - There is a symbiotic relati…

This is a great answer, thank you for articulating. My only disagreement would be in regards to government being the only institution with the economic incentive to do invest here, long-term. From my understanding of the federal governments involvement in agriculture subsidies, the government seems to be much more in support of the entrenched, large-scale industrial farming systems. I hope for a future where our department of agriculture comes around to support these holistic farming practices.

Re: Investors say agroforestry is climate friendly and also profitable

#29

Post by dtwest »

Fiahil wrote: post #23
freeqaz wrote: post #16

I think that "mixed" farming like this article describes has a huge potential for automation by the software field. Monocrops[0] (homogeneous fields of crops like corn or soybeans) are easy to build automated robots for. We've been doing that for generations now, starting with combine harvesters[1]. But there are many problems with growing monocrops[2]. Pests are a problem -- they breed and spread disease. And on the…

There is a short explanation on why heterogeneous cropping is not the norm : Harvesting is just extremely difficult. It's not just a software automation problem, it's building the machinery and tractors, training people, gathering feedbacks... Even if you manage to repetitively grow successful combinations of produces, that's only the beginning of the journey. Farming is an far older industry than software engineerin…

Software gives the agriculture industry new tools, it helps gather information, it helps build better machinery and can even help train people. Of course software engineers won't be the only ones contributing to solving these problems, but farmers are very resourceful and tend to welcome any new tools to improve their businesses. They've been improving for the last 10,000 years, why stop now?

Re: Investors say agroforestry is climate friendly and also profitable

#30

Post by depthroiler »

dhruvkar wrote: post #10
jbeales wrote: post #3

So they rediscovered orchards?

ernst gotsch is the name to lookup. Growing food under a forest canopy with plenty of pruning, which creates healthy soil and less/no need for fertilizers. It's an effort to mimic a forest ecosystem and let things grow in their natural way (livestock is another aspect).

Very cool. Thanks for the ref! Are there any books of his you'd recommend?
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