Investors say agroforestry is climate friendly and also profitable • Hacker News Board

Re: Investors say agroforestry is climate friendly and also profitable

#11

Post by nothal » Fri, Jul 10, 2020, 6:20 PM UTC

the8472 wrote: post #6

shrthnd wrote: post #2

"If farmers increased silvopasture acreage from approximately 550 million hectares today to about 770 million hectares by 2050 (1.36 billion acres to 1.9 billion acres), Drawdown estimated carbon dioxide emissions could be reduced over those 30 years by up to 42 gigatons — more than enough to offset all of the carbon dioxide emitted by humans globally in 2015, according to NOAA — and could return $206 billion to $273…

That means 30 years of work + maintaining the results indefinitely afterwards to offset 1 year worth of emissions?

With a return of billions though? Most profit requires effort.

Re: Investors say agroforestry is climate friendly and also profitable

#12

Post by zdragnar » Fri, Jul 10, 2020, 6:22 PM UTC

shrthnd wrote: post #2

"If farmers increased silvopasture acreage from approximately 550 million hectares today to about 770 million hectares by 2050 (1.36 billion acres to 1.9 billion acres), Drawdown estimated carbon dioxide emissions could be reduced over those 30 years by up to 42 gigatons — more than enough to offset all of the carbon dioxide emitted by humans globally in 2015, according to NOAA — and could return $206 billion to $273…

Note that silvopasture is a combination of livestock grazing pasture and trees. The opposite method it would replace is the factory farm where animals are much more concentrated (with all the moral issues involved).

The problem, I think, is one of volume- I don't see the factory farms shutting down in favor of techniques that require broader skill sets (tree harvesting, land management) beyond what they are already hiring for and investing technology in, especially since per-square-area production of meat is substantially smaller.

I would love to see factory farms convert to silvopasture, especially if that means lower prices for things like nuts, but the broader skill set and management challenges make me think they will continue to be niche competitors to, not replacements of, our current supply.

Re: Investors say agroforestry is climate friendly and also profitable

#13

Post by hef19898 » Fri, Jul 10, 2020, 6:25 PM UTC

nothal wrote: post #9

It's really wild to me that investors realizing foresting exists and continues to exist because it makes money is a story. I did forestry related club stuff in high school for a program called Envirothon and there's a rich history of silviculture in the US and Europe going back a long ways. IIRC, we actually have more forest in the US today than 100 years ago because of silviculture. Notably, the Vanderbilt's started…

Fun fact, one of the first detailed concepts of sustainability comes from forestry in Germany by Hans Carl von Carlowitz in 1713.

https://www.forstwirtschaft-in-deutschland.de/index.php?id=5...

Re: Investors say agroforestry is climate friendly and also profitable

#14

Post by hef19898 » Fri, Jul 10, 2020, 6:26 PM UTC

ngngngng wrote: post #4

> It turns out, people NEED food. Really, it's remarkable. And they'll actually pay dollars for food that you've grown, so that they can then eat it, because otherwise they'll die.

Crazy, them people, right?

Re: Investors say agroforestry is climate friendly and also profitable

#15

Post by xwdv » Fri, Jul 10, 2020, 6:26 PM UTC

nothal wrote: post #11

the8472 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That means 30 years of work + maintaining the results indefinitely afterwards to offset 1 year worth of emissions?

With a return of billions though? Most profit requires effort.

Billions have less value the farther into the future they are, unless you can take out a loan with it.

Re: Investors say agroforestry is climate friendly and also profitable

#16

Post by freeqaz » Fri, Jul 10, 2020, 6:39 PM UTC

I think that "mixed" farming like this article describes has a huge potential for automation by the software field.

Monocrops[0] (homogeneous fields of crops like corn or soybeans) are easy to build automated robots for. We've been doing that for generations now, starting with combine harvesters[1].

But there are many problems with growing monocrops[2]. Pests are a problem -- they breed and spread disease. And on the soil nutrient side, you have to keep re-fertilizing (and often over-fertilize[3]) every year to keep it going. And still nutrients continue to decline in the food that Americans are eating[4].

If, as a field (of software engineers), we can figure out a way to build robots that allow growing and harvesting plants in heterogeneous environments, that will be a significant step forward to fixing these problems. I'm optimistic that it will be possible in the next decade to build it and make it profitable. :)

If you don't have to use fertilizer and pests don't eat your crops because you haven't created the ideal breeding ground for pests + disease, then this problem should be solved by market forces alone. At least, I hope so!

0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monocropping

1: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combine_harvester

2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monocropping#Monocropping_diff...

3: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fertilizer#Environmental_effec...

4: https://journals.ashs.org/hortsci/view/journals/hortsci/44/1...

Re: Investors say agroforestry is climate friendly and also profitable

#17

Post by banads » Fri, Jul 10, 2020, 6:42 PM UTC

freeqaz wrote: post #16

I think that "mixed" farming like this article describes has a huge potential for automation by the software field. Monocrops[0] (homogeneous fields of crops like corn or soybeans) are easy to build automated robots for. We've been doing that for generations now, starting with combine harvesters[1]. But there are many problems with growing monocrops[2]. Pests are a problem -- they breed and spread disease. And on the…

Nature abhors monoculture

Re: Investors say agroforestry is climate friendly and also profitable

#18

Post by ForrestN » Fri, Jul 10, 2020, 6:45 PM UTC

I got quite deep into the article, but couldn't get through the morass of PR to understand the basic idea of their agroforestry initiative. At one point, they actually write that a lightbulb went off... but what is the new idea?

Is there anyone familiar with this field who tell a clear story of what their idea is, and how planting trees in existing farms will work in practice to accomplish all the results they predict? I'm sure it's an interesting story.

Re: Investors say agroforestry is climate friendly and also profitable

#19

Post by hodgesrm » Fri, Jul 10, 2020, 6:53 PM UTC

It's really surprising to me that we tend to focus on sustainability rather than simple economic benefits when pitching initiatives to combat climate change.

Case in point: The US had a great opportunity to sell alternative energy sources as way to get off Middle East oil after 9/11. Instead we continued to consume oil like there's no tomorrow while squandering trillions on fruitless wars.

Re: Investors say agroforestry is climate friendly and also profitable

#20

Post by cagenut » Fri, Jul 10, 2020, 6:54 PM UTC

ForrestN wrote: post #18

I got quite deep into the article, but couldn't get through the morass of PR to understand the basic idea of their agroforestry initiative. At one point, they actually write that a lightbulb went off... but what is the new idea? Is there anyone familiar with this field who tell a clear story of what their idea is, and how planting trees in existing farms will work in practice to accomplish all the results they predic…

I just so happened to watch this youtube this week that answers that (at a high level): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEZvF68sytc

Part of the reason its so difficult to summarize is because its about taking a systems approach to the farming/biology and therefore it is infinitely varied in practice.