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New German law would force ISPs to allow secret service to install trojans

privateinternetaccess.com

201–210 of 245 posts

Re: New German law would force ISPs to allow secret service to install trojans

#201
post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How's the CSU authoritarian? That's like throwing expletives around; you might as well call them Nazis and get it over with.

It's not. Modern CDU/CSU are basically where the social democrats were about ten years ago.

You are confusing social politics, economic politics and interior politics.

Re: New German law would force ISPs to allow secret service to install trojans

#202
post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What. Its awful. Privacy doesnt need comparisons or analogies. We have the language to describe privacy in native terms. We dont need help of figurative speech mixing and muddying the waters.

I love making analogies. I even compared apples to oranges and it worked! Humour aside, analogies are really important and I have never understood the disparagement of comparing one group or situation to another. Analogising is a tool to help understand one other and promote diversity.

Analogies can’t convince anyone who is not already sympathetic – anyone wanting to oppose your point would only poke holes in and argue about the analogy itself; making analogies does not help when arguing. Analogies only help when explaining something to someone who genuinely wants to understand it.

Re: New German law would force ISPs to allow secret service to install trojans

#203
post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love making analogies. I even compared apples to oranges and it worked! Humour aside, analogies are really important and I have never understood the disparagement of comparing one group or situation to another. Analogising is a tool to help understand one other and promote diversity.

Analogies can’t convince anyone who is not already sympathetic – anyone wanting to oppose your point would only poke holes in and argue about the analogy itself; making analogies does not help when arguing. Analogies only help when explaining something to someone who genuinely wants to understand it.

All argumentation is generally for the sake of the neutral interested third party, not the firm opponent.

Re: New German law would force ISPs to allow secret service to install trojans

#204

To not even be sure whether a website you visit, or a file you download is actually what its creator says it is, is like picking up an orange but the government secretly replaces it with an apple that contains almost no vitamin C in it at all. You have the right to seek out and eat an orange for your immune system and survival, and no government should have the right to interfere with that, at any time. This law is a…

I wonder how they would break TLS though. Your ISP cannot just break that up. Maybe degrade your connection to http, but without local access to your machine, it would be quite difficult to inject something in a data stream that is encrypted. Easier to do it through app stores of any kind.

Re: New German law would force ISPs to allow secret service to install trojans

#205
post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>NSA would be very bad at their job indeed if they couldn’t issue valid TLS certificates for any domain to themselves. Is there any evidence of this? With certificate transparency being mandatory a few years ago, you'd think that the NSA would be caught at least once.

There are 270+ CAs out there. All the NSA has to do is compromise the CA cert keys of one of them and they can then generate their own valid certs, completely disconnected from CT. All CT tells you is somebody goofed, was tricked into issuing a cert, or an account was compromised and an attacker generated a cert. In other words, not-super-advanced attacks. The NSA have plenty of tricks. They intercept devices being s…

> and they can then generate their own valid certs, completely disconnected from CT

Aren't browsers now requiring that certificates from many CAs (if not all of them) are submitted to CT before they are accepted as valid by the browser? That is, a certificate without an attached CT proof, even if it has a valid signature from the CA, will be treated as invalid.

(However, given what's being talked about (MITM of software update servers), this might be enough if the libraries being used by the software updater are not as strict as the browsers, and don't require an attached CT proof.)

Re: New German law would force ISPs to allow secret service to install trojans

#207

To not even be sure whether a website you visit, or a file you download is actually what its creator says it is, is like picking up an orange but the government secretly replaces it with an apple that contains almost no vitamin C in it at all. You have the right to seek out and eat an orange for your immune system and survival, and no government should have the right to interfere with that, at any time. This law is a…

Thank you for this conception. Metaphor and analogy are vital in every human endeavor.

As for my reasoning why:

Analogies and other figurative speech is important, not just as conversational tools, but also in thinking. Language is a metaphorical tool we place on reality to manage and interpret it. This is true for human languages and programming languages. Take Python. This is a high level language which an interpreter uses to help a computer parse it into the needed lower language for its understanding. The language alone though does little on its own without the multiple layers computers use to apply given instructions. Human language is multiple levels higher than computer languages when it comes to interpreting reality. Pretty much all human language is a metaphor because it doesn't directly mean what we are referring to. It instead refers to our mental conception of what we are attempting to relate to in reality.

Re: New German law would force ISPs to allow secret service to install trojans

#208
post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How's the CSU authoritarian? That's like throwing expletives around; you might as well call them Nazis and get it over with.

It's not. Modern CDU/CSU are basically where the social democrats were about ten years ago.

> Modern CDU/CSU are basically where the social democrats were about ten years ago.

relevant?

Re: New German law would force ISPs to allow secret service to install trojans

#209
post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What. Its awful. Privacy doesnt need comparisons or analogies. We have the language to describe privacy in native terms. We dont need help of figurative speech mixing and muddying the waters.

I love making analogies. I even compared apples to oranges and it worked! Humour aside, analogies are really important and I have never understood the disparagement of comparing one group or situation to another. Analogising is a tool to help understand one other and promote diversity.

I always get a kick out of analogies on HN. When there’s a technical concept being discussed, someone will make a non-technical analogy. When there’s a non-technical concept being discussed, someone will make a technical analogy.

And it’s all inevitably followed by an argument about the analogy itself.

Re: New German law would force ISPs to allow secret service to install trojans

#210

To not even be sure whether a website you visit, or a file you download is actually what its creator says it is, is like picking up an orange but the government secretly replaces it with an apple that contains almost no vitamin C in it at all. You have the right to seek out and eat an orange for your immune system and survival, and no government should have the right to interfere with that, at any time. This law is a…

I wonder how they would break TLS though. Your ISP cannot just break that up. Maybe degrade your connection to http, but without local access to your machine, it would be quite difficult to inject something in a data stream that is encrypted. Easier to do it through app stores of any kind.

Browsers and operating systems include a list of root certificates which includes those of various governments. Pretty much any government can thus issue valid HTTPS certificates for any domain to MITM traffic.
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