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Police surveilled protests with help from Twitter-affiliated startup Dataminr

theintercept.com

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Re: Police surveilled protests with help from Twitter-affiliated startup Dataminr

#91

> The monitoring seems at odds with claims from both Twitter and Dataminr that neither company would engage in or facilitate domestic surveillance following a string of 2016 controversies. Twitter, up until recently a longtime investor in Dataminr alongside the CIA, provides the company with full access to a content stream known as the “firehose” — a rare privilege among tech firms and one that lets Dataminr, recentl…

Last I heard, there were less than 10 companies with access to the full firehouse (which has every tweet). Most only get a partial feed, if that.

Disclaimer: Used to work for Dataminr; was laid off.

Re: Police surveilled protests with help from Twitter-affiliated startup Dataminr

#92

> The monitoring seems at odds with claims from both Twitter and Dataminr that neither company would engage in or facilitate domestic surveillance following a string of 2016 controversies. Twitter, up until recently a longtime investor in Dataminr alongside the CIA, provides the company with full access to a content stream known as the “firehose” — a rare privilege among tech firms and one that lets Dataminr, recentl…

> Dataminr is not the only company with access to the firehose

Was Twitter an investor in those other companies though? I believe this is the differentiator that the author of the article is trying to bring up.

Re: Police surveilled protests with help from Twitter-affiliated startup Dataminr

#93
post #82
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my opinion, this goes because just surveilling a legal protest. These protests were specifically against the police's abuse of their power. This resulted in a police response that was much more adversarial than a traditional legal protest would face. Aiding the police in surveilling protesters allows police to further abuse their power and target protesters for retribution. Providing this monitoring isn't that dif…

At least 17 people were murdered during this time and a few more since this was posted: https://www.thepostemail.com/2020/06/03/twitter-user-compile... The posts are public and the police cannot go after anyone for simply engaging in protected speech, but they can and have identified looters and murderers who have tried to discredit the fact that black lives matter with their actions. So I'm not clear why so many peo…

It’s things like this [1]. Doesn’t matter if it’s cops who really did it. People would like for the cops to not have a list of anti-police protestors.

[1] https://www.chicagotribune.com/nation-world/ct-ferguson-acti...

Re: Police surveilled protests with help from Twitter-affiliated startup Dataminr

#94
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

do you have actual proof not every group is engaging in lynchings or is this conjecture?

Sure. Just to pick one out of a hat, American Renaissance, run by white supremacist Jared Taylor, has never lynched anyone: https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/grou... I can't directly cite the negative of never lynching anyone, of course. But a google search should reveal it. AFAIK Andrew Anglin of The Daily Stormer has never lynched anyone either. I still hope the FBI is keeping tabs on him, tho…

This actually illustrates an interesting point about think tanks.

Amren may have never done a lynching, but the shadowy nature of how think tanks can launder money may implicate an associated group in modern-day lynchings covered up by the police[0].

The Koches, one of the largest financiers of right wing groups was built oil refineries for both Stalin and Hitler(the reich’s second largest refinery). They scrubbed the latter from their corporate history and were never tried at Nuremberg.

As it stands today, an average high school girl attending a BLM protest from twitter is likely surveilled far more heavily than Taylor or Anglin from the revelations in new surveillance articles. And that’s terrifying.

[0] https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/06/22/black-vict...

Re: Police surveilled protests with help from Twitter-affiliated startup Dataminr

#95
post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Easily. Without hesitation, obviously, hard yes. If the KKK wants to be a tiny minority of people who lack the nuance to direct their anger at anything other than a color of skin, maybe we need to work on our education system. If they haven't committed a crime, then either they haven't hurt anybody, or we need to work on our judicial system. Inevitably, the microscopic amount of good that could be done would be vastl…

Well if you're willing to accept that the government should not keep tabs on racist organizations or militias, then I guess we've cashed out our disagreement to terminal values. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

You can think whatever you want. You can even think it with a bunch of people and hopefully not have to feel scared to think whatever is you will think, nor fear talking about whatever is you want to talk about. Even if that thing has something to do with creating real, actual change within our lifetimes.

Re: Police surveilled protests with help from Twitter-affiliated startup Dataminr

#96

> The monitoring seems at odds with claims from both Twitter and Dataminr that neither company would engage in or facilitate domestic surveillance following a string of 2016 controversies. Twitter, up until recently a longtime investor in Dataminr alongside the CIA, provides the company with full access to a content stream known as the “firehose” — a rare privilege among tech firms and one that lets Dataminr, recentl…

Last I heard, there were less than 10 companies with access to the full firehouse (which has every tweet). Most only get a partial feed, if that. Disclaimer: Used to work for Dataminr; was laid off.

There is partial firehose access, that's true. That's probably much more common than full access. I bet you could get some surveillance done with only partial access, though.

And there is also such a thing as imports, which I think lets you pull historical data based on terms you want to find. I don't know if that gets a sample, or everything that matches.

Re: Police surveilled protests with help from Twitter-affiliated startup Dataminr

#97
post #92

> The monitoring seems at odds with claims from both Twitter and Dataminr that neither company would engage in or facilitate domestic surveillance following a string of 2016 controversies. Twitter, up until recently a longtime investor in Dataminr alongside the CIA, provides the company with full access to a content stream known as the “firehose” — a rare privilege among tech firms and one that lets Dataminr, recentl…

> Dataminr is not the only company with access to the firehose Was Twitter an investor in those other companies though? I believe this is the differentiator that the author of the article is trying to bring up.

I can't speak for all of them, but I'm pretty sure they're not an investor in the company I am familiar with. That's a fair point to bring up.

Re: Police surveilled protests with help from Twitter-affiliated startup Dataminr

#98
post #17

I get the sense that most HN commenters are against having police surveil this kind of event in the U.S. Could someone share the reasons for this strong opposition? Personally, I can imagine valid reasons for and against conducting such surveillance. But given how many people feel otherwise, I wonder if I'm missing something.

The first obvious point is that protesting is a constitutionally protected activity, as is any political speech on Twitter, and this is interpreted extremely widely - so why are public institutions in the business of surveilling this legal, ney protected activity? But there is more to it. Courts have long recognized that state activity that can be reasonably construed to chill exercise of ones constitutional freedoms…

Twitter is a private platform. You have no free speech rights on Twitter. You have no rights at all, other than the Terms of Service.

The Bill of Rights protects you from the government. Twitter is not the government.

Re: Police surveilled protests with help from Twitter-affiliated startup Dataminr

#99
post #35
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first obvious point is that protesting is a constitutionally protected activity, as is any political speech on Twitter, and this is interpreted extremely widely - so why are public institutions in the business of surveilling this legal, ney protected activity? But there is more to it. Courts have long recognized that state activity that can be reasonably construed to chill exercise of ones constitutional freedoms…

> The first obvious point is that protesting is a constitutionally protected activity, as is any political speech on Twitter, and this is interpreted extremely widely - so why are public institutions in the business of surveilling this legal, ney protected activity? There are lots of things that are protected activities that I would like surveiled. Militias. The KKK. Neo-nazis. I certainly hope the FBI and other law…

Feminists. Anti-war activists. Civil rights activists. Martin Luther King Jr.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO

Re: Police surveilled protests with help from Twitter-affiliated startup Dataminr

#100

I get the sense that most HN commenters are against having police surveil this kind of event in the U.S. Could someone share the reasons for this strong opposition? Personally, I can imagine valid reasons for and against conducting such surveillance. But given how many people feel otherwise, I wonder if I'm missing something.

The right to assemble and air grievances against government are core fundamental rights. Police exist to enforce the law, police monitoring a protest means they believe a crime will result out of the protests and they need to prevent it,or it means they don't like the protests and they are interfering with the free excercise of rights.

As someone that has used Dataminr first hand, I can confidently tell you it is being used to monitor for threats. And as such and based on observed law enforcement response, I can confidently say anti-mask/lockdown protests where protrstors brandished weapons in public were not monitored this way. Plenty of care was taken to protect those people's rights.

The fact that the protests are against specifically police and the fact that police used cleat and absooutley unwarranted violence against both protestors and even journalists and also how white people had to form a human shield to protect black protestors should tell any observer clearly that the police see the blm protestors as a threat, simply for protesting and for airing their grievances against government in public.

Dataminr, palantir's excellent tools and many other products of the tech center were abused in racially motivated retribution against blm protestors.

In other words, while normally the police are a just arm of the executive branch that enforces laws(and they mostly are in few places in the US), most US police departments are technically a rogue insider threat against americans constitutional rights, they are enemies of the people taking sides in a culture war designed to tear apart the west.

If you ask me, this isn't a domestic law enforcement issue. I remmber in ecuador or somewhere in south america soldiers were protecting protestors against police violence (very similar to blm protests). The US military should show they take their oaths seriously and interfere, maybe this has been considered and they simply need judical or congressional authorization. Although given the nature of the protests and america's ironic disunity, soldiers may take cops' side. A very unpleasant situation.

You are not being paranoid if you are afraid if a civil war breaking out. Suddenly all the tech in the world becomes scary when used in a war against our neighbors.

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