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Police surveilled protests with help from Twitter-affiliated startup Dataminr

theintercept.com

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Re: Police surveilled protests with help from Twitter-affiliated startup Dataminr

#71

Post by aspenmayer »

darawk wrote: post #60
pstuart wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The KKK was designed to be a terrorist organization.

I'm not saying that the KKK is not a terrorist organization. I'm just saying that they are not legally classified as one, because of the first amendment. The courts consider it unconstitutional to label any domestic organization as a 'terrorist organization', in the legal sense.

Could you elaborate on this part?

> The courts consider it unconstitutional to label any domestic organization as a 'terrorist organization', in the legal sense.

I don’t doubt this, but a citation would help me see where you’re coming from, in a legal jurisprudence sense.

Re: Police surveilled protests with help from Twitter-affiliated startup Dataminr

#72

Post by aspenmayer »

FilterSweep wrote: post #56
darawk wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point is that they are both engaged in protected activities of free association and speech. If the standard is that the government should not surveil people engaged in those activities, then the KKK would have to be exempted too. Or, alternatively, you could formulate a more nuanced criteria for when the government should or should not surveil people.

Are Racial lynchings a protected activity? To be honest, I wouldn’t be surprised if they were

No, as they are acts and actions designed to reduce free exercise of civil rights.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_Enforcement_Act

Re: Police surveilled protests with help from Twitter-affiliated startup Dataminr

#73

Post by taneq »

darawk wrote: post #58
rapind wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think deeply about what you're proposing.

I am thinking about it. Think about what you are proposing. Do you really want to take the position that the government cannot monitor any group until it commits a crime?

I think that was the general idea, yes. Or at least, before they have strong indication that it’s likely to commit a crime.

Re: Police surveilled protests with help from Twitter-affiliated startup Dataminr

#74

Post by FilterSweep »

darawk wrote: post #59
FilterSweep wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are Racial lynchings a protected activity? To be honest, I wouldn’t be surprised if they were

Of course not. But not every racist group has engaged in lynchings. Do you think the government should refrain from surveilling racist organizations until they do their first lynching?

do you have actual proof not every group is engaging in lynchings or is this conjecture?

Re: Police surveilled protests with help from Twitter-affiliated startup Dataminr

#75

Post by seph-reed »

darawk wrote: post #58
rapind wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think deeply about what you're proposing.

I am thinking about it. Think about what you are proposing. Do you really want to take the position that the government cannot monitor any group until it commits a crime?

Easily. Without hesitation, obviously, hard yes. If the KKK wants to be a tiny minority of people who lack the nuance to direct their anger at anything other than a color of skin, maybe we need to work on our education system. If they haven't committed a crime, then either they haven't hurt anybody, or we need to work on our judicial system.

Inevitably, the microscopic amount of good that could be done would be vastly outweighed by the chilling effect on every group that was trying to create positive change at the expense of the oligarchy. Aka: true patriots.

Re: Police surveilled protests with help from Twitter-affiliated startup Dataminr

#76

Post by aspenmayer »

colordrops wrote: post #7
aspenmayer wrote: post #2

I don’t know how these folks sleep at night, lying to the public, their users, and their customers in the same breath. > The monitoring seems at odds with claims from both Twitter and Dataminr that neither company would engage in or facilitate domestic surveillance following a string of 2016 controversies. Twitter, up until recently a longtime investor in Dataminr alongside the CIA, provides the company with full acc…

Why is this comment downvoted?

I’ll admit I was a bit too emotional with my take. I don’t mean to imply that those who violate the Constitution deserve to suffer from their conscience or from any health or psychological issues as a result of such constitutional violation. I simply don’t know how those employees avoid the cognitive dissonance. I suppose there is ample scientific evidence showing that the more money you make, the less ethical you may act[1], but this is really raising the bar, or lowering it, depending on your perspective.

[1] https://www.pnas.org/content/109/11/4086

Re: Police surveilled protests with help from Twitter-affiliated startup Dataminr

#77

Post by darawk »

aspenmayer wrote: post #71
darawk wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not saying that the KKK is not a terrorist organization. I'm just saying that they are not legally classified as one, because of the first amendment. The courts consider it unconstitutional to label any domestic organization as a 'terrorist organization', in the legal sense.

Could you elaborate on this part? > The courts consider it unconstitutional to label any domestic organization as a 'terrorist organization', in the legal sense. I don’t doubt this, but a citation would help me see where you’re coming from, in a legal jurisprudence sense.

https://www.factcheck.org/2020/06/trump-cant-designate-antif...

Re: Police surveilled protests with help from Twitter-affiliated startup Dataminr

#78

Post by FilterSweep »

darawk wrote: post #57
FilterSweep wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Antifa is considered a domestic terrorist organization to the trump admin. Even though being antifa is simply being against fascism.

It's not though. Not in any legal sense.

Is it or is it not? Per this tweet, I really don’t know: https://mobile.twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1267129644...

Re: Police surveilled protests with help from Twitter-affiliated startup Dataminr

#79

Post by darawk »

FilterSweep wrote: post #74
darawk wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course not. But not every racist group has engaged in lynchings. Do you think the government should refrain from surveilling racist organizations until they do their first lynching?

do you have actual proof not every group is engaging in lynchings or is this conjecture?

Sure. Just to pick one out of a hat, American Renaissance, run by white supremacist Jared Taylor, has never lynched anyone:

https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/grou...

I can't directly cite the negative of never lynching anyone, of course. But a google search should reveal it. AFAIK Andrew Anglin of The Daily Stormer has never lynched anyone either. I still hope the FBI is keeping tabs on him, though.

Re: Police surveilled protests with help from Twitter-affiliated startup Dataminr

#80

Post by darawk »

seph-reed wrote: post #75
darawk wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am thinking about it. Think about what you are proposing. Do you really want to take the position that the government cannot monitor any group until it commits a crime?

Easily. Without hesitation, obviously, hard yes. If the KKK wants to be a tiny minority of people who lack the nuance to direct their anger at anything other than a color of skin, maybe we need to work on our education system. If they haven't committed a crime, then either they haven't hurt anybody, or we need to work on our judicial system. Inevitably, the microscopic amount of good that could be done would be vastl…

Well if you're willing to accept that the government should not keep tabs on racist organizations or militias, then I guess we've cashed out our disagreement to terminal values. We'll just have to agree to disagree.
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