One woman's stolen identity exposed a system of exam fraud • Hacker News Board

Re: One woman's stolen identity exposed a system of exam fraud

#111

Post by randycupertino » Fri, Jul 10, 2020, 12:34 AM UTC

godelski wrote: post #76

thewarrior wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The western sense of morality didn’t stop the admissions scandals to all top western universities like Harvard Stanford and so on. Chinese universities as far as I know don’t have things like institutionalized legacy admissions. I’d like people to reconsider the view that western societies are somehow inherently purer or less corrupt. Often it takes different forms. This can be seen in the way sanctions are imposed f…

While I think we should criticize others and call them out for their bad behavior I do want to stress that it is very important to hold ourselves to a high standard. This is an essential part of a democracy. There is always room to improve. We are trying to form a more perfect union. Criticize others to learn from their mistakes. Criticize ourselves so we fix ours. (I do think think self criticism is common in the we…

I don't think it's just rampant in non-democratic vs democratic societies. A colleagues wife had him sit and take her entire online pharmacy class for her, sitting online as her for the entire course. He is a physician and had to actually take the classes themselves because when he tried to sit just for the exam for her he didn't get a high enough score. Other than checking IDs in person for exams, I'm not sure how to prevent someone else sitting behind the computer for you during an online course.

Re: One woman's stolen identity exposed a system of exam fraud

#112

Post by justicezyx » Fri, Jul 10, 2020, 12:41 AM UTC

Retric wrote: post #85

thaumasiotes wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chinese universities do have this concept -- certain students are marked VIP, so that professors will know. But the concept of granting admission based on such status, as opposed to extending special treatment to an admitted student, is very much muted. There are ways of getting in to a university without passing the gaokao threshold that would ordinarily be required. But those generally involve receiving a point boo…

Official VIP students... wow that’s horrifyingly corrupt. Clearly admissions is also letting things slide, just with less official backing as fewer people need to be involved. In the US, collages have more or less rigorous programs rather than simply letting people slide through.

Official VIP usually include:

* Minority race

* Very poor areas

* People with certain disability but not affecting learning capability

The hidden official VIP:

* Descents and relatives of people with power

Re: One woman's stolen identity exposed a system of exam fraud

#113

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jul 10, 2020, 12:42 AM UTC

thewarrior wrote: post #45

zozin wrote: post #37

This is enraging. Identity theft in the United States can be a headache, sure, but in most cases the financial institutions are the ones taking the brunt of the damage, and even that is probably covered by some sort of insurance scheme. This woman had her entire life stripped away from her, not to mention making her doubt her own abilities by implying she “failed” the exam. How do these people live with themselves, e…

The western sense of morality didn’t stop the admissions scandals to all top western universities like Harvard Stanford and so on. Chinese universities as far as I know don’t have things like institutionalized legacy admissions. I’d like people to reconsider the view that western societies are somehow inherently purer or less corrupt. Often it takes different forms. This can be seen in the way sanctions are imposed f…

[deleted]

Re: One woman's stolen identity exposed a system of exam fraud

#114

Post by nelsondev » Fri, Jul 10, 2020, 12:45 AM UTC

zozin wrote: post #37

This is enraging. Identity theft in the United States can be a headache, sure, but in most cases the financial institutions are the ones taking the brunt of the damage, and even that is probably covered by some sort of insurance scheme. This woman had her entire life stripped away from her, not to mention making her doubt her own abilities by implying she “failed” the exam. How do these people live with themselves, e…

Why did you feel the need to say “western sense of morality” rather than just “sense of morality”?

The article describes national outrage at this story of injustice, your implication is that a larger “eastern” sense of morality has allowed this to happen, rather than the corrupt individuals named.

Re: One woman's stolen identity exposed a system of exam fraud

#115

Post by uedue828e » Fri, Jul 10, 2020, 1:01 AM UTC

hrhrhrd wrote: post #77

uedue828e wrote: post #69

[flagged]

But the parent comment was about neither genocide nor systemic racism. It was about corruption and how, despite it taking different paths in the US, it's equally reprehensible.

The parent comment is not about corruption. It is about morality.

Re: One woman's stolen identity exposed a system of exam fraud

#116

Post by markus_zhang » Fri, Jul 10, 2020, 1:08 AM UTC

alasdair_ wrote: post #100

markus_zhang wrote: post #31

Back in the days when electronics records were not the norm there were a lot of these things especially in less-developed provinces. Nowadays it's better but I'd suspect there are still things similar going on. In the less developed areas of China the so called "Cheng Guan Wu Ju Tou" (The five masters of the town, usually includes the party secretary, the town mayor, vice mayors and maybe a couple of other important…

>Back in the days when electronics records were not the norm there were a lot of these things especially in less-developed provinces. Nowadays it's better but I'd suspect there are still things similar going on. Like some Chinese criminals with money hiring body doubles to serve their prison term for them. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ding_zui

Yeah heard that too years ago. I remembered back in maybe 5 years ago marriage information is not shared among the provinces so technically you can marry multiple times in different provinces and not got caught...

Re: One woman's stolen identity exposed a system of exam fraud

#117

Post by uedue828e » Fri, Jul 10, 2020, 1:16 AM UTC

thewarrior wrote: post #74

uedue828e wrote: post #69

[flagged]

Could you elaborate what the differences are so we all can get a clearer picture ? Is your claim that western civilization and values are superior to all others ? Does China for eg kidnap people from other countries on secret flights and then water board them on an island outside of all countries laws ? Did China blanket an entire foreign country in carcinogenic chemicals that caused birth defects for generations ? W…

It's not even a matter of debate that the west is culturally superior to the rest of the world, particularly China of all places. Chinese elite send their children and capital to the West the moment they are able. Western elite sending their children to live in China is a comedy. Get real. Always with the USA is just as bad as us nonsense lol. China is an Orwellian nightmare the West merely dreams of being.

Re: One woman's stolen identity exposed a system of exam fraud

#118

Post by rland » Fri, Jul 10, 2020, 1:34 AM UTC

Retric wrote: post #85

thaumasiotes wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chinese universities do have this concept -- certain students are marked VIP, so that professors will know. But the concept of granting admission based on such status, as opposed to extending special treatment to an admitted student, is very much muted. There are ways of getting in to a university without passing the gaokao threshold that would ordinarily be required. But those generally involve receiving a point boo…

Official VIP students... wow that’s horrifyingly corrupt. Clearly admissions is also letting things slide, just with less official backing as fewer people need to be involved. In the US, collages have more or less rigorous programs rather than simply letting people slide through.

You'll be amazed when you find out about legacy admissions!

Re: One woman's stolen identity exposed a system of exam fraud

#119

Post by creato » Fri, Jul 10, 2020, 1:49 AM UTC

8ytecoder wrote: post #50

thewarrior wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The western sense of morality didn’t stop the admissions scandals to all top western universities like Harvard Stanford and so on. Chinese universities as far as I know don’t have things like institutionalized legacy admissions. I’d like people to reconsider the view that western societies are somehow inherently purer or less corrupt. Often it takes different forms. This can be seen in the way sanctions are imposed f…

The same universities that were affected by the scandal regularly give admissions for donors’ kin. It’s just that the money went to a third party instead of the college in the scandalous cases. Free market - not arguing the morality of it - allows for the person with the resources to get an edge on various things - from life saving medical treatment to life changing opportunities.

> It’s just that the money went to a third party instead of the college in the scandalous cases.

That's a pretty huge difference. Letting someone donate money in exchange for admission smells bad, but if the donation is larger than the cost, they made more room for others than they occupied themselves. If a third party captures the "donation", that's just a roundabout form of theft/embezzlement.

Re: One woman's stolen identity exposed a system of exam fraud

#120

Post by KSteffensen » Fri, Jul 10, 2020, 1:59 AM UTC

creato wrote: post #119

8ytecoder wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same universities that were affected by the scandal regularly give admissions for donors’ kin. It’s just that the money went to a third party instead of the college in the scandalous cases. Free market - not arguing the morality of it - allows for the person with the resources to get an edge on various things - from life saving medical treatment to life changing opportunities.

> It’s just that the money went to a third party instead of the college in the scandalous cases. That's a pretty huge difference. Letting someone donate money in exchange for admission smells bad, but if the donation is larger than the cost, they made more room for others than they occupied themselves. If a third party captures the "donation", that's just a roundabout form of theft/embezzlement.

Well, ok I guess you can argue that, but can we then get rid of the notion that the US is a meritocracy?