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Chicago Police Department shuts down its arrest API

chicagoreporter.com

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Re: Chicago Police Department shuts down its arrest API

#101

Post by nickff »

elliekelly wrote: post #65
nickff wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should everything be federalized? There is no article in the constitution which mandates (or permits) federal supervision of state powers (such as the police power). The fact that voters fail to hold their lower-level governments to account does not mean that all power (and failure) should be centralized.

The federal government is responsible for enforcing citizens’ civil rights when states can’t, won’t or don’t.

You're begging the question here; you need to explain your reasoning as to how and why your beliefs are true, rather than simply asserting them.

Re: Chicago Police Department shuts down its arrest API

#102

Post by fzeroracer »

I'm not sure why the title was revised. The story makes a strong case that the reason why the arrest API was removed was because the Chicago Reporter used said API to prove that they were lying about their original claims. Now they refuse to comment on why it was removed and are ignoring any FOIA requests to actually get the data.

In attempt to make the title more neutral it seems like it made it more biased in favor of what seems like a corrupt police department.

Re: Chicago Police Department shuts down its arrest API

#103

Post by ceejayoz »

mtgp1000 wrote: post #94
ATsch wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's interesting that you're using the widely used cop-speak of "police involved shooting", a passivized framing very popular in the media, even when criticizing the police.

Are you suggesting that media are pro-police right now? After nearly universally coming out in support of the current protests? What term would you prefer? One that does not presume innocence?

A bunch of passive-voice examples here:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2014/07/14/...

> The deputy’s gun fired one shot, missing the dog and hitting the child.

Or here:

https://reason.com/2020/01/28/passive-voice-deployed-in-myst...

> The suspect was struck several times by the officer's duty weapon.

Re: Chicago Police Department shuts down its arrest API

#104

Post by bathtub365 »

falcrist wrote: post #90
nostromo wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's confusing for me that so many people will complain about how the police unions prevent reform and allow for bad behavior -- but then support unions for all other public sector workers.

Public sector unions seem a little odd to me. The whole point of unions is to have collective bargaining power to deal with the bargaining power of corporations. That makes perfect sense... but isn't collective bargaining the point of having a democratic government? I'm not saying having, say, a teachers' union is a bad thing. I just feel like it should be redundant. Of course, the police are a special case even with…

Public sector unions exist because you have two groups of people with opposing needs/desires. The state wants to minimize budget while still providing services, and public workers want to make an appropriate wage for the work they do. The government is organized, so (IMO) there should be an organization on the other side of the table bargaining for the workers.

Re: Chicago Police Department shuts down its arrest API

#105

Post by rs23296008n1 »

Police especially don't have many excuses for hiding their actions since they are meant to enforce the law. It used to surprise me just how many pointless secrets are kept by government departments in open democracies.

But who watches the watchers?

I think police departments and government can do better. Removing data implies a lack of transparency. Transparency and being seen to be improving at "doing the right thing" should be core targets right now.

This isn’t just about police either. I should be able to look up a lot more. Open democracies, informed voters, right? Regular, yearly/monthly data dumps should be commonplace.

How else are modern democracies meant to function? Lobby groups? How 20th century!

Re: Chicago Police Department shuts down its arrest API

#106

Post by [deleted] »

nostromo wrote: post #84
heavyset_go wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's crazy to me that in 2020, there isn't comprehensive, mandatory Federal tracking of police-involved shootings. There is a billion dollar lobby that goes up to bat whenever law enforcement gets bad press, or legislation they don't like gets proposed. While I'm in favor of unionization, I do not support organizations that represent the strong arm of the state's desire to operate opaquely and without oversight fro…

It's confusing for me that so many people will complain about how the police unions prevent reform and allow for bad behavior -- but then support unions for all other public sector workers.

[deleted]

Re: Chicago Police Department shuts down its arrest API

#107

Post by aaomidi »

save_ferris wrote: post #64
hpoe wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, I would be interested to hear more of your legal theory for this as it could be argued. However in the United States Constitution the 10th Amendment states that all powers not explicitly delegated to the federal government are reserved to the states. Thus establishing the principle of the separation of powers between the federal and state governments as integral to American law. Thus according to the constitution…

> I am anxious however to learn more on the subject if you can provide additional evidence that legally the role of the US Federal government is to act as an oversight body for the states. The Federal government has the power to apply consent decrees to specific police departments when those departments are found to have used force excessively, per the 1994 Violent Crime and Law Enforcement Act[0]. This essentially o…

Also keep in mind that a lot of these agencies receive federal funding.

Even if they don't have a legal right to do oversight, they can simply say you comply with this or you don't get federal money.

Re: Chicago Police Department shuts down its arrest API

#108

Post by gruez »

nostromo wrote: post #84
heavyset_go wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's crazy to me that in 2020, there isn't comprehensive, mandatory Federal tracking of police-involved shootings. There is a billion dollar lobby that goes up to bat whenever law enforcement gets bad press, or legislation they don't like gets proposed. While I'm in favor of unionization, I do not support organizations that represent the strong arm of the state's desire to operate opaquely and without oversight fro…

It's confusing for me that so many people will complain about how the police unions prevent reform and allow for bad behavior -- but then support unions for all other public sector workers.

Imagine if the army was unionized, and started lobbying the government for whether we should participate in wars or not. Or more worryingly, lobbied for change to rules of engagement. Add to that, the fact that everyone in the military was in the union, from the lowest level recruits to the generals. This is as opposed to other unions where management are typically excluded.

Re: Chicago Police Department shuts down its arrest API

#109

Post by dhosek »

heavyset_go wrote: post #26
save_ferris wrote: post #6

It's crazy to me that in 2020, there isn't comprehensive, mandatory Federal tracking of police-involved shootings. There's no reason that this data shouldn't be mandated to be aggregated and researched, other than to continue propagating a culture of secrecy. From the FBI's Use-of-Force data collection site[0]: > Is it mandatory for law enforcement agencies to contribute to this data collection? > The FBI has no lega…

> It's crazy to me that in 2020, there isn't comprehensive, mandatory Federal tracking of police-involved shootings. There is a billion dollar lobby that goes up to bat whenever law enforcement gets bad press, or legislation they don't like gets proposed. While I'm in favor of unionization, I do not support organizations that represent the strong arm of the state's desire to operate opaquely and without oversight fro…

But don't worry, the police only elect the best to be the leaders of their unions.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/columns/eric-zorn/ct-column-c...

Re: Chicago Police Department shuts down its arrest API

#110

Post by namdnay »

mtgp1000 wrote: post #94
ATsch wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's interesting that you're using the widely used cop-speak of "police involved shooting", a passivized framing very popular in the media, even when criticizing the police.

Are you suggesting that media are pro-police right now? After nearly universally coming out in support of the current protests? What term would you prefer? One that does not presume innocence?

Just police shootings would be fine.

I don’t understand the point about presuming innocence. These are cases where it has been determined that a police officer has shot someone. Not cases where somebody was shot whilst police were nearby and we don’t know who did it, which would be “police involved shootings”.

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