Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Chicago Police Department shuts down its arrest API

chicagoreporter.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 273 posts

Re: Chicago Police Department shuts down its arrest API

#31

Post by throwaway894345 »

catalogia wrote: post #27
bachmeier wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might be reading a little too much into the article. It's possible you're bringing outside views into the discussion.

> It's possible you're bringing outside views into the discussion. It's literally impossible for anybody to ever not. There's no such thing as a blank slate human who's capable of conversing. Edit for response: To be clear, I don't think makotech222 argued their point well. But expecting people to enter a conversation without any outside ideas influencing their mindset is patently absurd.

Ideally they would have some basis in reality as demonstrated by some accompanying supporting evidence. I don’t think that’s asking too much.

Re: Chicago Police Department shuts down its arrest API

#32

Post by hpoe »

aaomidi wrote: post #22
hpoe wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is an important concept of federalism to have that separation of authority between State and Federal. Besides given the federal government's track record of transparency do you really think if they had authority over local PDs they'd make all of that data available and open? Update: Just to make clear I don't disagree that more data is good and that we should work to make all crime and police data available, but I…

The federal government acts as an oversight body. They should do their job as an oversight body.

So, I would be interested to hear more of your legal theory for this as it could be argued.

However in the United States Constitution the 10th Amendment states that all powers not explicitly delegated to the federal government are reserved to the states. Thus establishing the principle of the separation of powers between the federal and state governments as integral to American law.

Thus according to the constitution the role of the federal government is not that of an oversight body. I am anxious however to learn more on the subject if you can provide additional evidence that legally the role of the US Federal government is to act as an oversight body for the states.

EDIT: A lot of the replies have been informative, and well reasoned and there is a very compelling case from a legal perspective for the idea of the Federal government has the ability to compel local PDs in this respect. My hats off to the replies, very informative. I still don't know if the FBI would be the best appendage for doing something like this, but I do find the responses informative.

Re: Chicago Police Department shuts down its arrest API

#33

Post by wolco »

happytoexplain wrote: post #7
throwaway894345 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking as a former working-class person from a long lineage of working class people, this is obviously and overt nonsense. The criminal justice system and the (highly distributed) institution of policing in particular must be improved and reformed, but the idea that they "oppress working class people" in any meaningful way is severely disconnected from reality (well, communist countries notwithstanding). EDIT: Wow,…

I don't think you had to go as far as asserting that the parent is overtly lying. It's far from impossible to honestly believe the police "oppress working class people", especially if you have any personal experience to bias your view that way.

Police come from working class backgrounds. It is usually the lower class not the working class who gets oppressed.

Re: Chicago Police Department shuts down its arrest API

#34

Post by vxNsr »

heavyset_go wrote: post #26
save_ferris wrote: post #6

It's crazy to me that in 2020, there isn't comprehensive, mandatory Federal tracking of police-involved shootings. There's no reason that this data shouldn't be mandated to be aggregated and researched, other than to continue propagating a culture of secrecy. From the FBI's Use-of-Force data collection site[0]: > Is it mandatory for law enforcement agencies to contribute to this data collection? > The FBI has no lega…

> It's crazy to me that in 2020, there isn't comprehensive, mandatory Federal tracking of police-involved shootings. There is a billion dollar lobby that goes up to bat whenever law enforcement gets bad press, or legislation they don't like gets proposed. While I'm in favor of unionization, I do not support organizations that represent the strong arm of the state's desire to operate opaquely and without oversight fro…

So are you against all government unions? What about quasi-gov orgs like SEC? Or teachers? Just trying to understand where you fall on the “unions for me but not thee” scale

Re: Chicago Police Department shuts down its arrest API

#35

Post by Latty »

JoeSmithson wrote: post #29
Latty wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You complain about being downvoted, but your entire post is just calling the post "obviously and overt nonsense" and claiming it is a lie, without making any attempt to explain why. Not exactly a helpful post.

Wikipedia defines the police as "a constituted body of persons empowered by a state, with the aim to enforce the law, to ensure the safety, health and possessions of citizens, and to prevent crime and civil disorder". If you are claiming that the police are in fact, "a force which exists to terrorize working class people in order to force them to work for minimum wage" then I think the burden of proof is on you.

This is a very weird argument. No one is talking about the definition of the term, they are talking about the implementation as it exists in the US right now.

This is like saying that just because the DPRK has "democratic" in the name, it must be a democratic nation.

Re: Chicago Police Department shuts down its arrest API

#36

Post by happytoexplain »

JoeSmithson wrote: post #29
Latty wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You complain about being downvoted, but your entire post is just calling the post "obviously and overt nonsense" and claiming it is a lie, without making any attempt to explain why. Not exactly a helpful post.

Wikipedia defines the police as "a constituted body of persons empowered by a state, with the aim to enforce the law, to ensure the safety, health and possessions of citizens, and to prevent crime and civil disorder". If you are claiming that the police are in fact, "a force which exists to terrorize working class people in order to force them to work for minimum wage" then I think the burden of proof is on you.

You're misusing the concept of "burden of proof" as a rhetorical attack. The parent is not asserting the root comment to be true with no proof - they're pointing out why the response was bad. Upon whom the burden of proof lies has no bearing on that.

Re: Chicago Police Department shuts down its arrest API

#37

Post by monoideism »

dddeeerrr9999 wrote: post #21
makotech222 wrote: post #2

Everything you know and think about what the cops do and how they do it is built on many, many decades of copaganda you receive from the media. They are a force which exists to terrorize working class people in order to force them to work for minimum wage. They are an investment by the ruling class which allows them to maintain their profits on marginalized workers. They funnel poor people into prison camps where the…

>They funnel poor people into prison camps Its worse than that. A vast proportion of non-white crime is manufactured by cops and the media to scare whites into bringing back slavery in all but name. Black neighborhoods are actually the safest places in America if racist cops would stop harassing innocent citizens just because they are PoC. Black Lives Matter!

So you think that the "vast proportion" of the non-white shootings we see in inner cities are manufactured by the media and police?

Do you mean they make them up? I'm really not following here.

Re: Chicago Police Department shuts down its arrest API

#38

Post by monksy »

Latty wrote: post #13
throwaway894345 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking as a former working-class person from a long lineage of working class people, this is obviously and overt nonsense. The criminal justice system and the (highly distributed) institution of policing in particular must be improved and reformed, but the idea that they "oppress working class people" in any meaningful way is severely disconnected from reality (well, communist countries notwithstanding). EDIT: Wow,…

You complain about being downvoted, but your entire post is just calling the post "obviously and overt nonsense" and claiming it is a lie, without making any attempt to explain why. Not exactly a helpful post.

For the individual to make a claim that:

"They are a force which exists to terrorize working class people in order to force them to work for minimum wage. They are an investment by the ruling class which allows them to maintain their profits on marginalized workers."

Is just over the top absurdist. It's easily debunked by asking someone making above minimal wage "are you being forced to work by the police?" Will they bust down your door and address you for failure to accept employment at minimum wage?

Re: Chicago Police Department shuts down its arrest API

#39

Post by optimiz3 »

dddeeerrr9999 wrote: post #21
makotech222 wrote: post #2

Everything you know and think about what the cops do and how they do it is built on many, many decades of copaganda you receive from the media. They are a force which exists to terrorize working class people in order to force them to work for minimum wage. They are an investment by the ruling class which allows them to maintain their profits on marginalized workers. They funnel poor people into prison camps where the…

>They funnel poor people into prison camps Its worse than that. A vast proportion of non-white crime is manufactured by cops and the media to scare whites into bringing back slavery in all but name. Black neighborhoods are actually the safest places in America if racist cops would stop harassing innocent citizens just because they are PoC. Black Lives Matter!

> A vast proportion of non-white crime is manufactured by cops and the media to scare whites into bringing back slavery in all but name. Black neighborhoods are actually the safest places in America if racist cops would stop harassing innocent citizens just because they are PoC.

These are pretty sensational claims, do you have hard statistically relevant evidence for this?

Re: Chicago Police Department shuts down its arrest API

#40

Post by tptacek »

A lot of this reporting work came from 'bpchaps, for what it's worth; he's been doing awesome data journalism work (in part with the Low Orbit Ion Cannon of FOIA infrastructures), which he's written about and discussed on HN; for instance:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17754105

More people should be doing this stuff.

Post reply on HN