Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Linux Mint drops Ubuntu Snap packages

lwn.net

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

451–460 of 538 posts

Re: Linux Mint drops Ubuntu Snap packages

#451

Post by afiori »

xet7 wrote: post #341
blendergeek wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would anyone offer an alternate store for snaps? Ubuntu seems to have made clear that the snap client will not be able to connect to alternative stores. What is the point of building an alternative store. Further snap is controlled by one company. Canonical has a history of developing groundbreaking new things for the Linux community before unceremoniously killing them off. * Ubuntu One * Unity Desktop * Ubuntu T…

Continuing Ubuntu One was not sustainable: https://ubuntu.com/blog/shutting-down-ubuntu-one-file-servic... Ubuntu One file syncing, also server part, has been Open Sourced with much effort from Canonical: https://ubuntu.com/blog/ubuntu-one-file-syncing-code-open-so... Ubuntu Touch https://ubports.com is run by community and has rapid progress, it's running on PinePhone etc. Canonical would have liked to continue Unit…

You have described a trend where those technologies failed to gain sustainable traction and Canonical stopped investing in them. Whether they did this because they are evil or unlucky is not the point.

Re: Linux Mint drops Ubuntu Snap packages

#452

Post by afiori »

rlpb wrote: post #268
Avamander wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it is to provide an upgrade path for users of Chromium in previous Ubuntu releases to the latest Ubuntu release without breaking Chromium. Are you seriously, unironically claiming this? You broke a massive amount of native plugins. The snap auto-update mechanism fucks up Chromium's data each time because Chromium gets no warning that it suddenly can't write to the disk. Its launch time is also way worse. On top of…

> Are you seriously, unironically claiming this? Yes - because when I say "without breaking Chromium", I mean that Chromium wouldn't work at all because it wouldn't be installed following an upgrade, as opposed to some things you don't like about how the Chromium snap works but don't apply to the majority of Chromium users. Edit: you seem to be conflating your disagreement on Ubuntu's choice to move to shipping Chrom…

> Chromium wouldn't work at all because it wouldn't be installed following an upgrade

I am not an expert in apt/deb, could expand on this part?

Is this a problem due to Canonical not offering a chromium deb or is it something that was already happening before? (like chromium requires many libraries to be of specific versions and if you pin them in apt then sometimes it is impossible to install any version)

Re: Linux Mint drops Ubuntu Snap packages

#453

Post by philliphaydon »

philliphaydon wrote: post #354
mixmastamyk wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not anymore. I found a chromium PPA, and while not perfect, it doesn't do any of the irritating things listed above.

I just went to chrome.Google.com and downloaded it and installed it. shrug

Downvoted for downloading chrome from google to avoid snaps?

Re: Linux Mint drops Ubuntu Snap packages

#454

Post by sergeykish »

toyg wrote: post #415
pjfin123 wrote: post #84

If desktop Linux is ever going to be mainstream there needs to be an easy to use "app store" where users can use a GUI to install apps which need to be sandboxed like on a mobile phone with defined permissions. Snapcraft is way ahead of Flatpak on this and the current Ubuntu setup works well. On Ubuntu you can go to the Ubuntu software app (gui) search for software and it blends apt results with snap results. This re…

People really have learnt the wrong lessons from the iPhone. The iPhone launched without the AppStore. The AppStore was not the cause of Apple's success, Usability and Power were - in the sense that it allowed users to do more things (access the web from anywhere) with less effort (no booting times or ceremony). It was the first mainstream device that made it really easy to browse the web; that is what made it succes…

Don't you afraid it would be like browser addons - developers selling users to spyware companies?

Re: Linux Mint drops Ubuntu Snap packages

#455

Post by DoofusOfDeath »

xet7 wrote: post #313
DoofusOfDeath wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> just use an alternative solution like flatpak Saying " just use an alternative" seems overly dismissive of the complications that entails. IIUC, the only options for that are (a) abandon Ubuntu, or (b) actively circumvent Ubuntu's software distribution infrastructure, reminiscent of dealing with Windows 10 forced updates. IMHO this somewhat erodes Ubuntu's value proposition.

AFAIK Ubuntu does not force reboot like Windows 10.

I believe you're correct. I'm not arguing that Ubuntu is now as bad as Windows 10; just that it's a move in that direction.

Re: Linux Mint drops Ubuntu Snap packages

#456

Post by toyg »

sergeykish wrote: post #454
toyg wrote: post #415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People really have learnt the wrong lessons from the iPhone. The iPhone launched without the AppStore. The AppStore was not the cause of Apple's success, Usability and Power were - in the sense that it allowed users to do more things (access the web from anywhere) with less effort (no booting times or ceremony). It was the first mainstream device that made it really easy to browse the web; that is what made it succes…

Don't you afraid it would be like browser addons - developers selling users to spyware companies?

No, but that's probably because I've grown up in the wild west of the '90s, where apps lived or died on their reputation. Any betrayal of users' trust would result in immediate removal and condemnation.

Also, it's not like modern developers don't sell users down the river. In fact, that's one of the very few sustainable business models that the AppStore forces you to have.

Re: Linux Mint drops Ubuntu Snap packages

#457

Post by sergeykish »

iso1631 wrote: post #436
driverdan wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If desktop Linux is ever going to be mainstream there needs to be an easy to use "app store" Why? Desktop computers worked just fine for 35 or so years before app stores showed up. It's completely unnecessary.

I've used an app store (or rather an 'apt store') since 1999, it's the reason I moved from redhat to debian in the first place. I'm not sure that "desktop computers" as we know it were around in the 60s (I certainly wasn't), but in the early 90s software tended to come from floppy disks, before that it was a C90 cassette on a spectrum.

Microsoft Store and Valve Steam do not contain (shock!) browsers, office, tools, etc. That I believe is a distinction between distribution and store - "store" agenda is not aligned with users.

Re: Linux Mint drops Ubuntu Snap packages

#458

Post by MisterTea »

psanford wrote: post #7

From the linked announcement: https://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=3906 > Applications in this store cannot be patched, or pinned. You can’t audit them, hold them, modify them or even point snap to a different store. You’ve as much empowerment with this as if you were using proprietary software, i.e. none. This is in effect similar to a commercial proprietary solution, but with two major differences: It runs as root, and it…

> Canonical seems to want to take away that visibility and control from their users.

The Microsoft way: over-automated operating system DE's which attempt to make the OS appear user friendly yet create one headache after another. They suffer from massive interconnected webs of program state and logic which fails leaving you with the only sane option of rebooting. The more automation the vendor inserts the less transparency and control you have.

Re: Linux Mint drops Ubuntu Snap packages

#459

Post by jquery »

CSDude wrote: post #234
emerongi wrote: post #220

Snaps are super laggy. GNOME calculator on Ubuntu runs in a snap and it is baffling that whoever made the decision to package it in a snap by default was OK with the fact that it takes 2 seconds to launch a basic calculator on a 2017 laptop (edit: re-tested, it took 5 seconds). To top it off, a couple months ago my calculator disappeared. For some reason I have been having problems with snap applications disappearing…

I think it's because they extract compressed rootfs tar each time to be mounted in LXC container. Even with a beefy computer, it takes considerable time.

Why does that take considerable time? I’m curious as to the technical reasons.

Re: Linux Mint drops Ubuntu Snap packages

#460

Post by BruiseLee »

randomdude402 wrote: post #357
emerongi wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is weird to me is that apparently there has not been someone in a position of power in this project that would go "Wait guys, this is not good. Any other ideas? How can we improve?" No, just roll on with it. There was a period of time, around 2010-2015 when I really felt that computers were fast. SSDs were getting more affordable and that was a huge improvement, every action was immediately responsive. In 2020,…

Somebody somewhere is probably running a calculator as an electron app that takes 10 seconds to open.

An electron app packaged as a snap.
Post reply on HN