Hate snapd. Statically linking every dependency is a step backwards, I don't need to have duplicates of common shared libraries in every binary. It's the first thing I uninstall with Ubuntu.
Linux Mint drops Ubuntu Snap packages
391–400 of 538 posts
Re: Linux Mint drops Ubuntu Snap packages
#392Earlier quoted context omitted.
> but from the User perspective it seems like FlatPaks[1] are much better and address the issues that this article raises This is interesting, because the last few days I was actually working on packaging an application of mine as a snap/flatpak. From my PoV, they both have their fair share of issues. Snaps enforce a sandbox, which I think is actually a good idea, because the desktop security model is somewhat broken…
`curl | bash` gets a bad wrap. From a security perspective (assuming you trust web pki), it's 100% no different than a) downloading and running a script, b) downloading a package and and installing it, c) downloading a binary blob and executing it, etc. I actually find that piping an install script to an interpreter is the easiest to audit of all the options because I can see exactly the changes that will be made to…
> The only improvement is if you somehow directly exchange keys with the vendor out of band with no web pki intermediate step and then verify the signature on the software you're installing... yeah.
Which is what Apt has done for 20+ years - packages are gpg-signed, developers sign with their individual keys (and have to have their identity verified by at least one other developer) and even someone who controls a root CA (which is most national governments and many large corporations, let's be fair) would have to mount a dedicated attack to subvert that process.
Re: Linux Mint drops Ubuntu Snap packages
#393Earlier quoted context omitted.
I just went to chrome.Google.com and downloaded it and installed it. shrug
Google is even less trustworthy than Canonical. I only use chromium for a few tests in incognito mode. Firefox FTW.
I use FF as my main browser, I installed chrome (non snap) only for testing, or when I'm subjected to using GoTurdMeeting.
Re: Linux Mint drops Ubuntu Snap packages
#394Earlier quoted context omitted.
It’s largely a good thing but it’s unreasonable not to mention the “flood of bug reports about issues that have since been fixed” effect that comes with manual updates. This has burnt a few projects pretty badly (especially where distros have packaged an old version and never updated it).
Taking power away from users to address that inconvenience may be the status quo in the proprietary software industry, but it's totally over the line for user-respecting FOSS software. Not least because, once a developer acquires that power over users they very frequently succumb to the temptation to abuse their userbase as involuntary beta testers for half-baked bullshit which users struggle to opt-out of.
Taking power away from the users and putting it in the hands of upstream maintainers is pretty bad, but putting it in the hands of distro maintainers is even worse in my experience. Upstream maintainers are at least the people who develop the software directly and deal with the bug reports.
Re: Linux Mint drops Ubuntu Snap packages
#395Earlier quoted context omitted.
> just use an alternative solution like flatpak Saying " just use an alternative" seems overly dismissive of the complications that entails. IIUC, the only options for that are (a) abandon Ubuntu, or (b) actively circumvent Ubuntu's software distribution infrastructure, reminiscent of dealing with Windows 10 forced updates. IMHO this somewhat erodes Ubuntu's value proposition.
I have a laptop that I'm planning on rebuilding from a failed NTFS/Win10 system to Linux something. Now I know it's not going to be Ubuntu or anything else derived from Canonical.
I'd seriously recommend looking at FreeBSD instead. Everything Linux seems to be going down this we-know-better-than-you path.
Re: Linux Mint drops Ubuntu Snap packages
#396Earlier quoted context omitted.
That's easy. It should be officially in Debian. ;-) Stuff like AppImage, static binaries, Docker & Co are for me at least a kind of "last resort". Even I'm using Docker a lot[1] to try things out I first look for an AppImage in those cases. But when I decide that some app should become part of my system I will look for a proper package. One source to rule them all… [1] Docker is a big problem on it's own. But as I ca…
Debian has a lot of rules, some of which prevent statically linked binaries, like Go programs, from being packaged and shipped with it. A notable example is lxd. Appimages are great but there's no sandboxing or updates. But hey, we used to downlad debs and install them by hand on Debian 1.3, before apt was a thing. Maybe appimages could be signed and distributed in a similar fashion.
Go also supports dynamic linking actually.
Re: Linux Mint drops Ubuntu Snap packages
#397Earlier quoted context omitted.
My favorite anecdote about Snap is the development team's opinion when it comes to users wishing to relocate their ~/snap directory elsewhere. It's a commonly requested feature and being able to move it would follow the Freedesktop.org spec, but the developers don't care.
Just hack your ls binary to not show the directory ;)
Fun fact: the Snap team's solution to this problem is to list ~/snap in a .hidden file[1] so that Nautilus or Dolphin hide it from view.
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hidden_file_and_hidden_directo...
Re: Linux Mint drops Ubuntu Snap packages
#398Earlier quoted context omitted.
From an IT perspective: I can set up an internal APT mirror for my users, servers, test systems, etc., but I can't set up an internal snap mirror as far as I can tell. This means that despite having an internal repo that I can whitelist, some package installations will now arbitrarily require internet access. I can no longer install chromium on a system without access to the internet, and package installation will fa…
There is a big user issue on top of the philosophical and maintenance issues - snaps are SLOOOOOOW. I've only experienced them with two applications, and both took forever to startup compared to the apt-get installed versions I quickly replaced them with. OK, "forever" is hyperbole - it was probably about 5 seconds. But it was enough of an annoyance for me to figure out how to install a deb packaged version. And ever…
Im here to push you towards Mint. mint is cleaner ubuntu. the wifi drivers work. the UI is really good. it just works.
Re: Linux Mint drops Ubuntu Snap packages
#399I've been wondering for a while whether the concept of "open source" and its connection to freedom are becoming meaningless.
Source code has been a dynamic thing for a while, and I think that's part of the reason the GPL (at least v2) is not very popular any more. I mean, nobody really even wants source code, it's just a maintenance headache.
Even after complexity started to take over, there was still the argument that you could audit your computer if it was doing something funny, or ask a different company to maintain it for you, instead. But that seems less and less practical as time goes on. The company that wrote the software is really the only game in town to keep it useful.
Snaps are a logical extension of this phenomenon. They cross a line in the sand, perhaps, but basically just continue a trend already going on.
Also, the unix security model seems fundamentally bad. The idea that any code you execute can delete everything in your home directory is insane. It imposes a huge burden of trust on your software distribution system for the most trivial things. That reduces the practicality of using third-party sources.
I'm not really defending snaps and I will probably avoid them as long as I can. But I sort of feel like the battle might already be lost.
Re: Linux Mint drops Ubuntu Snap packages
#400Earlier quoted context omitted.
There is a big user issue on top of the philosophical and maintenance issues - snaps are SLOOOOOOW. I've only experienced them with two applications, and both took forever to startup compared to the apt-get installed versions I quickly replaced them with. OK, "forever" is hyperbole - it was probably about 5 seconds. But it was enough of an annoyance for me to figure out how to install a deb packaged version. And ever…
Sending some encouragement your way: try Debian. I bet money you won't even notice it's not Ubuntu. Or you will, because your software will launch when you ask it to. I'm super happy with Debian lately. I know it used to be the old neck beard slow and steady distro, but honestly these days packages get updates rather timely and it doesn't feel like the Debian of 10 years ago. And you can always run Debian testing wit…
Made the switch 4 years ago after running raspian with no problems on the pi?.
If someone is debating just setup rasp with headless ssh and have at it.