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Linux Mint drops Ubuntu Snap packages

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Re: Linux Mint drops Ubuntu Snap packages

#381

Post by dcow »

lawl wrote: post #94
jonquark wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can see why Snap is like it is from Canonial's perspective - but from the User perspective it seems like FlatPaks[1] are much better and address the issues that this article raises [1] https://flathub.org/home (Disclaimer: I'm talking in a personal capacity but the company I work for in my day job now owns Red Hat - I don't work on Linux Operating Systems).

> but from the User perspective it seems like FlatPaks[1] are much better and address the issues that this article raises This is interesting, because the last few days I was actually working on packaging an application of mine as a snap/flatpak. From my PoV, they both have their fair share of issues. Snaps enforce a sandbox, which I think is actually a good idea, because the desktop security model is somewhat broken…

`curl | bash` gets a bad wrap. From a security perspective (assuming you trust web pki), it's 100% no different than a) downloading and running a script, b) downloading a package and and installing it, c) downloading a binary blob and executing it, etc. I actually find that piping an install script to an interpreter is the easiest to audit of all the options because I can see exactly the changes that will be made to my system. I don't know where the whole "zomg pipe to bash is so insecure" vibe came from, but it's effectively developer urban myth. The only improvement is if you somehow directly exchange keys with the vendor out of band with no web pki intermediate step and then verify the signature on the software you're installing... yeah.

Re: Linux Mint drops Ubuntu Snap packages

#382

Post by noisy_boy »

qchris wrote: post #214
commoner wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On Ubuntu you can go to the Ubuntu software app (gui) search for software and it blends apt results with snap results. GNOME Software and KDE Discover support both Flatpak and the distribution's native package manager together. For example implementations on Ubuntu-based distributions that work out of the box, see the elementaryOS AppCenter and the Pop!_OS Pop!_Shop: https://github.com/elementary/appcenter https://…

Just wanted to +1 Pop's Pop!_Shop. I have machines running both Ubuntu and Pop!_OS, and for some reason (not sure if it's because of the underlying tech/architecture differences, System76 curation, or what), the Pop package management has always been a better experience than Ubuntu's.

I like that after significant upgrades via apt, Pop!_OS shows a short summary of the updated system. Little touches like that go a long way in improving the experience.

Re: Linux Mint drops Ubuntu Snap packages

#383

Post by petre »

jen20 wrote: post #376
erik_seaberg wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't want software that has been configured and tested to work together by a distro maintainer, you're volunteering to do that work yourself and become the sole maintainer of a bleeding-edge distro with a very small audience.

That's fine - and why I use macOS as a desktop: because Homebrew consistently gives me up-to-date versions of the software I want. If I were to use Linux on the desktop, it would be a distribution which also allows this with minimal fuss - almost certainly not a Debian derivative. I understand the _reasoning_ behind the distribution model - I just don't think it works very well, and apparently nor do all the people w…

FreeBSD is pretty much a checkpointed rolling release.

Re: Linux Mint drops Ubuntu Snap packages

#384

Post by TheCapeGreek »

qchris wrote: post #214
commoner wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On Ubuntu you can go to the Ubuntu software app (gui) search for software and it blends apt results with snap results. GNOME Software and KDE Discover support both Flatpak and the distribution's native package manager together. For example implementations on Ubuntu-based distributions that work out of the box, see the elementaryOS AppCenter and the Pop!_OS Pop!_Shop: https://github.com/elementary/appcenter https://…

Just wanted to +1 Pop's Pop!_Shop. I have machines running both Ubuntu and Pop!_OS, and for some reason (not sure if it's because of the underlying tech/architecture differences, System76 curation, or what), the Pop package management has always been a better experience than Ubuntu's.

I want to like Pop!_Shop more, but it seems to start in the background on boot and hog 800MB of memory on my laptop while doing nothing. Not great on a RAM-constricted machine.

Re: Linux Mint drops Ubuntu Snap packages

#385

Post by flipchart »

emerongi wrote: post #220

Snaps are super laggy. GNOME calculator on Ubuntu runs in a snap and it is baffling that whoever made the decision to package it in a snap by default was OK with the fact that it takes 2 seconds to launch a basic calculator on a 2017 laptop (edit: re-tested, it took 5 seconds). To top it off, a couple months ago my calculator disappeared. For some reason I have been having problems with snap applications disappearing…

Sounds like Windows with their UWP apps. Calculator also used to take 5 secs to load. It’s down to about a second now but still baffles me to think that MS management are ok with that

Re: Linux Mint drops Ubuntu Snap packages

#386

Post by young_unixer »

sgillen wrote: post #181
driverdan wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If desktop Linux is ever going to be mainstream there needs to be an easy to use "app store" Why? Desktop computers worked just fine for 35 or so years before app stores showed up. It's completely unnecessary.

Yes but I believe that most causal non techy users just wont put up with it or at least would much prefer a GUI.

Windows installers have GUIs and Windows didn't have a store until recentñy.

Re: Linux Mint drops Ubuntu Snap packages

#387

Post by paxswill »

pantalaimon wrote: post #315
still_grokking wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's easy. It should be officially in Debian. ;-) Stuff like AppImage, static binaries, Docker & Co are for me at least a kind of "last resort". Even I'm using Docker a lot[1] to try things out I first look for an AppImage in those cases. But when I decide that some app should become part of my system I will look for a proper package. One source to rule them all… [1] Docker is a big problem on it's own. But as I ca…

Where can I find an up to date guide on how to package software for Debian and what to do to get it included in the repository? I’ve often came across orphaned packages where Debian was stuck with an old version, but didn’t know what to do about it other than installing from source. Or using a PPA if I was lucky.

For the first part, I found Debian’s Maintainers’ Guide [0] pretty helpful when I was updating xscreensaver last year (hasn’t been uploaded yet though...). It also has a section at the beginning concerning how to adopt orphaned packages. For upstream updates, some projects will have a way to create deb packages themselves, which can make installation/updates easier later on (concrete example, with OpenZFS can create RPMs and debs from the upstream tree).

0: https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debmake-doc/index.en.html

Re: Linux Mint drops Ubuntu Snap packages

#388

Post by vpzom »

ric2b wrote: post #273
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I rarely think about updating my software unless there's a new feature I need or a fix for a bug that's been ruining my life, so just visiting the website when to check for new versions is fine by me. However, you could also include a facility to manually check for updates and either self-update or just show the changelog. Why manually? "I know you're about to do this thing real quick that needs to get do…

> Why manually? "I know you're about to do this thing real quick that needs to get done, but a new version is available! Would you like to twiddle your thumbs for 5 minutes while watching a progress bar?". That's a very Windows-centric point of view. Programs on Linux can be updated without closing them. You get the new version when you restart them.

Firefox has entered the chat

Re: Linux Mint drops Ubuntu Snap packages

#389

Post by jeffdavis »

emerongi wrote: post #220

Snaps are super laggy. GNOME calculator on Ubuntu runs in a snap and it is baffling that whoever made the decision to package it in a snap by default was OK with the fact that it takes 2 seconds to launch a basic calculator on a 2017 laptop (edit: re-tested, it took 5 seconds). To top it off, a couple months ago my calculator disappeared. For some reason I have been having problems with snap applications disappearing…

It's weird how modernized things can end up so bad at their original purpose. Like a computer being a bad calculator.

The same thing with phones. Smart phones are good at a lot of things, but they are mediocre as a telephone.

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