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Kosher search engine powered by 4 car batteries on a passively cooled server

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Re: Kosher search engine powered by 4 car batteries on a passively cooled server

#131

Post by Wowfunhappy »

ashtonkem wrote: post #126
emosenkis wrote: post #25

As on Orthodox Jew, while I don't have anything against this and it sounds like a fun hobby project, I don't like that it misleads regarding what Jewish law actually requires. As several others have mentioned, there is absolutely no problem with keeping a server running on the sabbath - computers aren't Jews (Jewish law only expects Jews to keep the sabbath). If it's Jews working to generate the electricity (most "mo…

B&H photo (run by Orthodox Jews out of NYC) stops accepting orders during the sabbath in their time zone. You can keep browsing, but you can’t generate work for them. This seems like a decent compromise, and it’s definitely not hurting their business.

> And it’s definitely not hurting their business.

I would question that conclusion. There have been times in the past I've wanted to order from B&H, but could not because it was on the Sabbath. In most cases, I just keep looking until I found the item on a different website.

I'm sure they consider the loss of business worthwhile to comply with their religion, but there is a cost.

Re: Kosher search engine powered by 4 car batteries on a passively cooled server

#132

Post by GoblinSlayer »

bJGVygG7MQVF8c wrote: post #69
rsynnott wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inclusive or, I assume (from my limited understanding, Judaism considers some rules to only apply to Jews, so it would make sense to consider Jews and Gentiles separately here). Total side note, but I’ve noticed that programmers (including myself) are more prone to read English or as xor than, for want of a better term, normal people. Not sure why this is.

That's interesting. My observation is almost the reverse — the casual English default for "or" seems to be xor, and only people with some exposure to formal logic know it can be ambiguous. I find some reinforcement for that in almost every logic book I've ever read using the casual English parsing of "or" to introduce the notion of inclusive or. But it's been a while, I may be misremembering.

I think it's or, which can look like xor because, e.g. (2|1)==(2^1);

Re: Kosher search engine powered by 4 car batteries on a passively cooled server

#133

Post by GoblinSlayer »

Udik wrote: post #129
rsynnott wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this sort of thing reads as absurd in Christian majority cultures mostly because mainstream Christianity does not currently have many restrictions which inconvenience people day to day. Back when it did, they did stuff that was at least as weird; did you know that both beavers and certain types of geese were regionally considered to be fish to get around the no meat on Fridays thing?

> mostly because mainstream Christianity does not currently have many restrictions which inconvenience people day to day. Note however that Islam has similar restrictions but an entirely different way to deal with them (respecting the spirit as well as their letter). My pet theory about the approach of the three main Abrahamic religions to restrictions: 1) Christianity: (loosely) respects the spirit but not the lette…

It's absolutely well known Islam often copes in the jewish way. "Faith alone" sends the spirit on a vacation too.

Re: Kosher search engine powered by 4 car batteries on a passively cooled server

#134

Post by masklinn »

cameron_b wrote: post #112
ggop wrote: post #38

B&H Video is shut for a day every week but also disallows online checkout. I've always found that interesting, like the website is an extension of their beliefs. https://www.bhphotovideo.com/find/HelpCenter/StoreInfo.jsp > Online Checkout Hours > Open 24/6 > Online checkout will be closed while we observe Shabbat from 8:15pm ET Fri until 9:45pm ET Sat. Although online ordering is unavailable, you may still add items…

I did my degree in Photography and spent money I don't care to sum up at that store both online and in person the few times I was in the City. I always found their stance to be one of integrity instead of self-righteousness. They are situated in a little enclave - see HN articles about the Eruv, etc. - and are quite genuine and not exclusive to their Jewishness, but simply have a community and a point of view. The no…

> The no-shabbat-order-processing feels less like "we don't make the machines make money for us" than it feels like "Look, you can shop online, but we're not gonna load it and ship it until we get back from our families."

That interpretation doesn't make much sense to me. Unless there's a human actually validating each order individually right as you checkout, you could just have a note saying there won't be any shipping on saturday. Or even that orders only ship mon-fri. And nobody would find it surprising.

Other commenters' hypothesis (against doing business on shabbat) make a lot more sense, a checkout would in fact be "doing business" even if the business does that on its own it's still in your name and under your responsibility.

Re: Kosher search engine powered by 4 car batteries on a passively cooled server

#135

Post by masklinn »

kenrose wrote: post #50
Jaruzel wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok. A serious question here: Can some HN Jews, enlighten me (a 100%-proof agnostic) on what they actually do on Shabbat? Are you allowed to use the internet? If something in your house breaks, are you not allowed to fix it? Do you just sit around gazing into space just in case something you do is classed as 'work'? I find the whole concept quite interesting.

For Sabbath observing Jews, “work” is defined as a certain set of 39 (?) activities that are defined in the bible and relating to building the “Mishkan”. Generations of Talmudic rabbis then added new interpretations and requirements on these rules to adapt for new technology. eg, the prohibition against using electricity is because it relates to igniting a spark, which is one of the 39 prohibited activities (Or “mala…

> Something breaks, fix it? No

I assume that's only if not urgent? e.g. pipe blows up or rock hits a window for whatever reason, you can at least effect basic repairs if not immediately call the tradie?

Re: Kosher search engine powered by 4 car batteries on a passively cooled server

#136

Post by llimos »

Faaak wrote: post #85
WJW wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's not tricked, he put the loopholes there on purpose. You can't trick an omniscient being.

Supposing you're right, then why did they put these loopholes by purpose if they're going to be discovered someday ? To play games with us maybe ? But then is that morally ok to do so ?

Before asking why the loopholes are there you should ask why the laws are there, then you can ask how the loopholes fit into that purpose.

Speaking as an Orthodox Jew - We believe the laws are there because particular actions affect the universe in ways we might not understand but that the creator does. It's like the instruction manual that comes with a machine. (If it was something we could figure out for ourselves we wouldn't need to be given the laws from on high.)

So it follows that if there is a loophole, in a law given by an omniscient God (i.e. there is no argument that He didn't think of it), it's because following that loophole does not cause the spiritual damage to the universe that breaking the rest of that law does.

Obviously some of you will argue with some of those axioms, but as stated by WJW elsewhere in this thread, this is about people who have already accepted the axioms.

Re: Kosher search engine powered by 4 car batteries on a passively cooled server

#137

Post by rsynnott »

Udik wrote: post #129
rsynnott wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this sort of thing reads as absurd in Christian majority cultures mostly because mainstream Christianity does not currently have many restrictions which inconvenience people day to day. Back when it did, they did stuff that was at least as weird; did you know that both beavers and certain types of geese were regionally considered to be fish to get around the no meat on Fridays thing?

> mostly because mainstream Christianity does not currently have many restrictions which inconvenience people day to day. Note however that Islam has similar restrictions but an entirely different way to deal with them (respecting the spirit as well as their letter). My pet theory about the approach of the three main Abrahamic religions to restrictions: 1) Christianity: (loosely) respects the spirit but not the lette…

There do seem to be cases where Islam is more willing to adapt the rules, though. For instance, most halal meat in Europe at least is now slaughtered with stunning, and this appears to be acceptable to most local Muslim authorities provided that the stunning is done in a way that is unlikely to cause permanent injury (so, no captive bolt guns etc). This is arguably staying within the spirit of the rules (the animal isn't dead when slaughtered, and won't die if you don't slaughter it), but not the letter (in that it's an addition to the prescribed procedure). As far as I know this is _never_ acceptable for kosher slaughter.

Re: Kosher search engine powered by 4 car batteries on a passively cooled server

#138

Post by llimos »

llimos wrote: post #136
Faaak wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Supposing you're right, then why did they put these loopholes by purpose if they're going to be discovered someday ? To play games with us maybe ? But then is that morally ok to do so ?

Before asking why the loopholes are there you should ask why the laws are there, then you can ask how the loopholes fit into that purpose. Speaking as an Orthodox Jew - We believe the laws are there because particular actions affect the universe in ways we might not understand but that the creator does. It's like the instruction manual that comes with a machine. (If it was something we could figure out for ourselves…

I should add that there are those who study how each thing affects the world - that is the study of Kabbala.

But you don't need to know it to accept the idea, just as you don't need to know how a machine works in order to use it, as long as you follow the manual.

Re: Kosher search engine powered by 4 car batteries on a passively cooled server

#139

Post by Jekyll-Jacobson »

onyva wrote: post #70
emosenkis wrote: post #25

As on Orthodox Jew, while I don't have anything against this and it sounds like a fun hobby project, I don't like that it misleads regarding what Jewish law actually requires. As several others have mentioned, there is absolutely no problem with keeping a server running on the sabbath - computers aren't Jews (Jewish law only expects Jews to keep the sabbath). If it's Jews working to generate the electricity (most "mo…

Also nothing to do with "Judaism", rather more of the ludicrousness of Eastern European rabbinical orthodoxy holier than though attitude that made them the most hated social group in Israel, mostly due to their blatant hypocrisy (i.e. object the legalization of prostitution in Israel, while they are the largest beneficiaries of it by percentage). Sort of kidnapped and suffocated to the death the essence of Judaism an…

We need to fend off the hijackers and reclaim OUR religion. Hiloniism is rather the coward’s way.

Re: Kosher search engine powered by 4 car batteries on a passively cooled server

#140

Post by llimos »

jfengel wrote: post #125
verytrivial wrote: post #49

I have never understood trying to get in to heaven on a technicality. Anyway, none of my business! All power to them (except during Shabbat of course.)

Kosher laws have nothing to do with getting into heaven. They're about community. Jews are the people who keep kosher. It's not a sin to fail to keep kosher. You're not jeopardizing the afterlife; Judaism puts far less focus on the afterlife than we're used to swimming in a Christian world view. That does sometimes lead to a weird performative "more kosher than thou", which I don't believe is really healthy but every…

That is not really true of most Orthodox Jews. Keeping the laws is about following the word of God, and the afterlife does play a fairly big part in our worldview. There are a handful of laws which are identified in the literature as being about community but those tend to be ones added later by the early rabbis (miderabannan), rather than straight from the Torah i.e. God (mideoraisa).

That being said, what you described in your second paragraph does happen, yes. Though not everyone who engages in it has the motives you ascribe to them. Some are sincerely trying to do the will of God as best they can.

> It's not a sin to fail to keep kosher

Well, it is for a Jew, but not for a non-Jew. We don't say that non-Jews need to keep our laws, other than a few very very basic ones likes not to murder. Non-Jews can still have an afterlife without keeping kosher.

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