Does anyone else miss having this level of motivation? And that's not an isolation effect on me, I gave up on trying fun things like this for a long long time now.
Extra hard when a 2 year old keeps cramming half-eaten fruit into everything.
Booting a 486 from floppy with the most up-to-date stable Linux kernel
101–110 of 171 posts
Re: Booting a 486 from floppy with the most up-to-date stable Linux kernel
#102The virtue of reusing an old system is somewhat eroded by the fact that its noise and power consumption exceed that of a more powerful Pi 3 B+, which can be had for $50-60 with case and power supply (circa 2020). I see little advantage in keeping the old hardware around anymore. I think I still have some old ISA cables downstairs in a box - high time to acknowledge to myself that I will NEVER use those again.
The Pi is also notoriously Broadcom-proprietary[1], whereas an x86 PC has been a de-facto standard for decades; everything is well-known or has been reverse-engineered already, especially with a 486-era system. It's somewhat similar to the reason people (like me) restore and drive old cars, also despite the "noise and power consumption" (and some happen to like the former ;-) --- they're relatively simple and well-un…
The analogy between retrocomputing and classic car enthusiasts really captures the spirit of what’s going on well.
Re: Booting a 486 from floppy with the most up-to-date stable Linux kernel
#103Posts like this showcase how malleable Linux really is without getting overly complicated to follow. Really a nice quick read.
But not nearly as malleable as it could be. Hopefully, true 80386 support can be reintroduced to the kernel in a way that keeps it properly self-contained and easy to support. There are also a few kernel-tinification approaches floating around that could make the kernel smaller and easy to fit in a floppy-using scenario.
There are perfectly good older versions of Linux that will support i386 forever. (Not to mention FreeDOS.)
Re: Booting a 486 from floppy with the most up-to-date stable Linux kernel
#104I had no idea the Linux kernel still supported the 486. I thought you had to have a Pentium class or better.
Kernel support for 386 was dropped recently, but 486 and above are fine. I think many distros have probably dropped 486 support, though; someone upthread mentions that Debian is 686 and above only now.
Re: Booting a 486 from floppy with the most up-to-date stable Linux kernel
#105Earlier quoted context omitted.
I fully empathize with this - I hate throwing out/recycling electronics. The power side it truly does depend on your local rates of course. If you consider a 24/7 draw of about 35 watts to power an out-of-box 486 DX2 (headless) vs like 3 watts for an RPI, you can do the math with some variance and figure out just how long the $60 will last you. But a 10-fold reduction in power consumption is pretty remarkable. When y…
486 is pre-RoHS, so there’s probably lead in the solder. I wouldn’t want it hanging around kids.
Leaded solder doesn't spontaneously vaporize and become airborne. You have to touch the solder enough to rub some off onto your skin, then put that part of your skin into your mouth long enough to get the absolutely microscopic amount of lead into your body.
Solder went lead-free (and electronics in general went ROHS) so when it's buried in landfills it doesn't seep lead or other hazardous materials into groundwater.
There is zero chance of lead solder getting hot enough to skip the liquid phase of matter and go straight to a gas in a 486.
Re: Booting a 486 from floppy with the most up-to-date stable Linux kernel
#106Earlier quoted context omitted.
My parents are still using the first computer I ever built, which is easily 10 years old! Power consumption on that machine is excessive, and I've been meaning to replace it, but the cost per year in excess electricity hasn't made it worth it to upgrade the machine.
How about a reduction in your personal help desk call queue? Or support incidents/month metric? I only partially kid - I switched the folks over to iPads and _everyone_ is happier.
I switched my mom to an iPad.
Fixing the computer keeps my dad busy. Seriously he has nothing better to do.
Re: Booting a 486 from floppy with the most up-to-date stable Linux kernel
#107Does anyone else miss having this level of motivation? And that's not an isolation effect on me, I gave up on trying fun things like this for a long long time now.
I think in a lot of the cases it is a combination of how the jobs have sucked a lot more out of folks and having family/kids/responsibilities etc. The latter was always present but the former has just gotten worse over the years.
Re: Booting a 486 from floppy with the most up-to-date stable Linux kernel
#108Earlier quoted context omitted.
For the record... sure you can!! :D An ISA/IDE cable is just copper ribbon cable using .1" spacing, which is what the GPIO header pin spacing is on a Pi. There is a pin blocked on the standard ide female connector but that pin is just one of many ground connectors on the Pi. Clip it off or dremel/drill out the hole as needed. Jeez, now I just convinced myself that I MIGHT use the cable some day. Thanks a lot! >:/ Was…
What is this "ISA cable" thing you keep talking about? You mean an IDE cable? ISA is a bus, not a cable. I have all sorts of ISA cards that have no alternative (other than for huge expense) or software. Quite a few IEEE-488, many other weird interfaces, DSP dev boards, one of a kind/prototype boards, other stuff. I have boxes of the stuff, and know hundreds of people who have the same needs. We have mailing lists. No…
Yeah I said IDE in the comment you're replying to. IDE or ATA is a subset of the Industry Standard Architecture (ISA), but yeah you're right - I should have said IDE cable in OC. Forgive me, it's been a while.
I don't doubt there are specialized boards out there that have no modern functional equivalent (esp. industrial apps), but you CAN connect to stuff using GPIB (IEEE 488) with a Pi, so that's not one of them.
If legacy OS/app support is your issue I'm not sure it's going to give you much value booting your 486 with a linux distro today (what the post was about, and the context in which my comment was made about the Pi).
If you're locked into the 486-generation hardware interfaces and the Windows/DOS software platform, and CAN'T leverage hardware interface bridges and software emulators on modern systems with horsepower to spare, you're talking about the edge cases of the edge cases.
My point was never directed at the edge cases of the edge cases. I said "I see little advantage in keeping the old hardware around". The rare edge cases are represented by that "little advantage" I CAN see. But it's little, man. Most situations where a 486 would offer any utility today, particularly on Linux but not only that, a $50 3-watt Pi can do the job better, cheaper and cleaner.
Those things are the embodiment of "generally useful" - A low power, small form-factor, relatively high-power compute platform with an easy to use GPIO header and libraries for many languages, able to leverage most Debian packages (including DOS emulators). I admit it doesn't meet 100% of planetary need, but it's right up there with anti-lock brakes, microwavable meals, and stretchy pants in my book. Convince me otherwise.
Re: Booting a 486 from floppy with the most up-to-date stable Linux kernel
#109Does anyone else miss having this level of motivation? And that's not an isolation effect on me, I gave up on trying fun things like this for a long long time now.
There’s no ROI on doing this stuff besides the intangibles. This is a startup news website, and you’re on here because you want, or were interested in, getting rich during the ages of 18-35.
Could just be me though.
Re: Booting a 486 from floppy with the most up-to-date stable Linux kernel
#110I had no idea the Linux kernel still supported the 486. I thought you had to have a Pentium class or better.
Kernel support for 386 was dropped recently, but 486 and above are fine. I think many distros have probably dropped 486 support, though; someone upthread mentions that Debian is 686 and above only now.
That’s probably where I got the idea. Debian is usually one of the last distros to make a move like that too since they’re conservative.