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YouTube bans Stefan Molyneux, David Duke, Richard Spencer for hate speech

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Re: YouTube bans Stefan Molyneux, David Duke, Richard Spencer for hate speech

#981

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, but you replied to GP in defense of "denouncing hatred and bigotry" (something they didn't even argue against) without directly addressing a pretty important point, i.e. dehumanization (which they did). Was there another way I should have read your comment with that in mind?

I suppose I am just very weary of a particular style of argument in this debate, which -- in addition to the tactic I called out -- frequently seems to include restating what the other person said as something worse, and then arguing against that restatement. And with all respect, that's what I think is happening here. The person who wrote "Dehumanization is alive and well, even among progressives" was responding to…

> The person who wrote "Dehumanization is alive and well, even among progressives" was responding to someone who wrote "But that policy is not even talking about racism, however defined; it's talking about hate. Hate is hate, no matter who it's directed to. Prejudice is prejudice." (That is literally the entirety of their comment.) So at least the way I read this thread, "dehumanization" was introduced as a rhetorical device to equate "prejudice is prejudice" with "dehumanize your opponents."

With respect, that's not at all what's happening. I started this sub-thread with this comment [1] criticizing the wording of the policy which emphatically does not focus on just "hate is hate", and "prejudice is prejudice", but is worded specifically towards protecting "marginalized groups".

And it's quite clear on reddit that it's not applied even-handedly to both minority and majority groups. If you think otherwise, go try defending Trump supporters as an experiment and see what happens.

So my comment here [2] to which you objected was not "restating what the other person said as something worse", but was raising the additional point that, despite the policy, hating on the majority is accepted as perfectly fine on reddit, and plenty of other places (Twitter, Facebook, etc.).

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23682471

[2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23683058

Re: YouTube bans Stefan Molyneux, David Duke, Richard Spencer for hate speech

#982

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a free society. If you don't like someone else's house party, build your own. thedonald.win is one such thing.

That is an increasingly cynical view to expose given that the people who decide to do that just get blacklisted by the financial elite. https://twitter.com/TheEbonyMaw/status/1277120076186112000 , https://reclaimthenet.org/gab-andrew-torba-visa-blacklisted-...

Yes, if you, as a nazi or other sort of radical, create services dedicated to "free speech", that include people who are openly nazis, or otherwise genocidal in nature, people will not want to be associated with you. That is a consequence of those views, and private organisations have the right to do that, since they are -- by their very nature -- private.

The types of people that moved to Gab hate "big government" and are against market regulation, but suddenly want the government to step in when companies blacklist them. They want the ability to "just ask questions" when it's clear they only intend to create inflammatory arguments so they get the excuse to degrade people. People like that complain people shouldn't force their views onto other people and then force their own hateful views about abortion, birth control, etc.

I mean hell, r/conservative said this point themselves, in a strikingly moment of hilarious self-awareness:

https://www.reddit.com/r/SelfAwarewolves/comments/hle529/goo...

The reason they get turned away from every and all social networks thusfar is because they cannot conduct themselves in a civil manner.

Re: YouTube bans Stefan Molyneux, David Duke, Richard Spencer for hate speech

#983

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... Except for some people, though, right? I have an idea how you feel about the guy refusing to sell (decorate) the gay marriage cake (not trying to be pithy here, just tried to do a bit of footwork before replying). Do you absolve that guy under those "American values and traditions of free speech" as you would a website in this case? For me, second-order consequences are as important as whether or not this particu…

>Importantly, a big part of my reasoning here is that, subscribing to stoic thought, I place accountability for any perceived "damage" from words on the shoulders of the person interpreting them. Whoa there buddy. You can't just suggest that other people be responsible for their own emotional responses and learn to moderate them and move along. If people started doing that, then what nwxt? You'd start having people i…

I do appreciate the sarcasm, and to your point, here's a bit of gallows humour in return: Allowing someone else to dictate your reaction to words is literal mind control. We cede control of our minds to those other people when we don't have control of our reactions. It's possible (and perhaps the typical case) that most people are habituated to a certain kind of mind control. And hearing or reading something which fits their worldview and moral relativity and subjective value judgments activates a particular reaction in their minds which becomes the expected reaction. It's only when these people hear or read something which is not in harmony with their habituated mind control that they react poorly, shunting the mind control directly into their emotions, bypassing critical thought. And just as though they'd been hit on the nose on the street unexpectedly, their emotional reaction (the thing which I call the "lizard brain") demands the assignment of "blame" so that it can start planning its revenge. Or otherwise respond in a way specified by the habituated mind control.

But to your point as well, it's in our nature though to react poorly to this notion, because it contains some uncomfortable truths about the universe and our place in it. And the lizard brain, having been hit on the nose with an uncomfortable, worldview-challenging assertion, commands to us that surely some fault lies on some level with the person saying the evil words or whatever. But no: It is literally the case that it is entirely within your control how you react to some person coming up to you on the street and screaming "COCKSUCKER!" in your face. I really try not to qualify my statements too much (because not doing so is one easy and practical way to demonstrate how little courtesy we extend to people who say things we disagree with, and how much we force our own value judgments on the words we interpret), but notice I'm not saying that it's not a lot of work to get to that point. And indeed, I still struggle with this mightily every day. We are human, after all. But we are the sole accountable party for our own thoughts.

To further support my assertion, imagine how your emotional, reactionary lizard brain would interpret the Cocksucker Guy if he was clearly a crazy person who lived on the street. Now imagine your interpretation of the same except that it's your significant other's best friend. Or significant other. Maybe you can see where this is going. Now imagine your interpretation of the exact same two scenarios, except instead of "cocksucker" they are screaming "asshole". You've just demonstrated in this simple thought experiment that your reaction is completely and wholly dependent on factors other than the words themselves. And this is my point (and indeed one of the core tenets of Stoicism), that control is an illusion, that real control does not extend beyond the boundary of your own mind, and thusly that the words themselves which you read and hear are not responsible for your reaction, but all this other shit that goes into your interpretation of those words, including your own personal subjective definition and value judgments and worldview.

You do not owe anyone anything when it comes to controlling their minds, and in fact, you are actually doing another person harm when you habituate the mechanics of external mind control by accepting responsibility for the contents of their mind, their reactions according to their subjective value judgments and moral relativity. Supporting the removal of some Youtube channels with unpopular views is precisely how you make habituating mind control more effective than it already is. Society desperately needs more mechanisms for supporting critical thought and (far) less of anything which streamlines shunting mind control around critical thought and into the emotional lizard brain. If anything, our society needs more bad ideas floating around and not less.

So stop helping the advertising industry, the government, mass media manufacturers, racist shitheads, and anybody else who would wish to co-opt the thought processes of those around you! The content of another person's mind is not your responsibility, and arguably none of your business.

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