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China suppression of Uighurs meets U.N. definition of genocide, report says

npr.org

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Re: China suppression of Uighurs meets U.N. definition of genocide, report says

#111

Post by saeranv »

AHappyCamper wrote: post #23

I understand that China is extremely powerful both militarily and economically, but it just makes me so sad that such atrocities against humanity are occurring at the hands of a superpower, deep into the 21st century. Forgive my naiveté, but aren't we supposed to be past this type of thing as a species already? Wasn't that the whole point of the 20th century - to show us all the things we shouldn't be doing?

I had a professor (a historian who studied Auschwitz) who used to argue the opposite. Germany was a modern, industrialized nation, with an educated population - and yet the majority of the population either actively committed genocide, or were complicit in some fashion. My professor thus argued that the conditions for the Holocaust are not unique, and there could easily be another one.

Re: China suppression of Uighurs meets U.N. definition of genocide, report says

#113

Post by tridentlead »

llboston wrote: post #28
prrls wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I may be mistaken but Han Chinese weren't forced to undergo sterilization. If you had a second child, you were fined and your child wouldn't be recognized as a Chinese citizen. Still horrible though.

That's actually not true. The Han Chinese are imposed forced sterilization. Even worse, pregnant Han women who violate the policy have been taken from home to do forced abortion. I hate this policy as much as anybody, but I won't call it genocide.

Call it whatever you want, but it is deeply immoral.

Re: China suppression of Uighurs meets U.N. definition of genocide, report says

#114

Post by steffandroid »

Causality1 wrote: post #7
sneak wrote: post #4

Per capita, the US imprisons approximately 20x more of its own ethnic minorities in a similar fashion. The numbers are so huge in China because the total population is so much larger. I think both desperately need to be addressed. It is painful for me to think that in all three of the richest, most populous, and largest countries on Earth, approximately zero of them have a full complement of human rights for all thei…

US prisons might be the worst prisons in the "first world" but they are a far sight from death camps. The US doesn't kill its prisoners and then harvest their organs for transplant. https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2019/06/18/china-kil...

> an independent tribunal

Funded by whom?

Re: China suppression of Uighurs meets U.N. definition of genocide, report says

#115

Post by chongli »

hkai wrote: post #53
baskire wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surprised trump doesn’t use this to place sanctions on China and up his base’s support.

Well, John Bolton in his new book alleges that Trump told Xi to keep locking up Uyghurs. > “According to our interpreter, Trump said that Xi should go ahead with building the camps, which Trump thought was exactly the right thing to do,” Mr. Bolton wrote. On the other hand, he also signed the Uyghur Human Rights Act.

I think it’s pretty clear at this point that Trump says a lot of different things and constantly contradicts himself. The running theme is that he tries to say what he thinks is the best thing to say at that time but with all the savvy and nuance of a used car salesman.

Re: China suppression of Uighurs meets U.N. definition of genocide, report says

#116

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

ta17711771 wrote: post #104
maybemaybenots wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"for almost all human beings on this planet, the goal of life continues to revolve around gaining wealth, recognition and power." This is a really broad and very specific statement. Genuinely curious what you base this on.

The actions of literally almost every group of elites and high-level government officials in the last 100 years? Are you not exposed to this behavior/news somehow?

The original comment said this was true of "almost all human beings", the vast majority of whom are neither elites nor high-level government officials.

Re: China suppression of Uighurs meets U.N. definition of genocide, report says

#117

Post by api »

AHappyCamper wrote: post #23

I understand that China is extremely powerful both militarily and economically, but it just makes me so sad that such atrocities against humanity are occurring at the hands of a superpower, deep into the 21st century. Forgive my naiveté, but aren't we supposed to be past this type of thing as a species already? Wasn't that the whole point of the 20th century - to show us all the things we shouldn't be doing?

I don't think we really learned any lessons. Stalin and Mao were at least as bad as Hitler in terms of body count. Hitler just lost the war, while the other two were able to continue to invest in propaganda to whitewash their histories. If Nazi Germany had emerged from the war intact, they too would have been able to whitewash their history for decades after. I'm sure in time they would have "moderated" a bit, and that little episode would be a regrettable footnote the way the Cultural Revolution is for the Chinese or Stalin's purges were/are for the USSR/Russia.

We have also never fully acknowledged what the Spanish, British, and later USA did to the native populations of North and South America in the preceding centuries. Yes it's true that disease did much of the work without anyone lifting a finger, but that's only true in the early days. Later on there was plenty of intentional slaughter including bounties to encourage it.

When I look at the way Twitter erupts into ideological witch hunts or things like the Qanon cult, I realize that we have not changed. If any of those mobs got actual power we'd see the same things repeated against whatever groups (real or imaginary) they hate. Civilization is a thin veneer.

Re: China suppression of Uighurs meets U.N. definition of genocide, report says

#118

Post by monocasa »

Causality1 wrote: post #7
sneak wrote: post #4

Per capita, the US imprisons approximately 20x more of its own ethnic minorities in a similar fashion. The numbers are so huge in China because the total population is so much larger. I think both desperately need to be addressed. It is painful for me to think that in all three of the richest, most populous, and largest countries on Earth, approximately zero of them have a full complement of human rights for all thei…

US prisons might be the worst prisons in the "first world" but they are a far sight from death camps. The US doesn't kill its prisoners and then harvest their organs for transplant. https://www.forbes.com/sites/zakdoffman/2019/06/18/china-kil...

The only reason is that the lethal injection combo we use in the US doesn't leave the organs suitable for transplant because it stops the circulatory system for too long. There's some pushes among groups like the AMA to change that.

Re: China suppression of Uighurs meets U.N. definition of genocide, report says

#119

Post by luckylion »

fouric wrote: post #84
CptObvious345 wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sssh, you're getting close to noticing that HN, a popular anonymous message board, has become the clear target of professional propagandists. You'll get banned for that. The mods are determined to never see this particular elephant in the room.

I don't think that the mods deny the astroturfing happening. They're actively looking out for and removing it. I think it's more that they don't want arguments to become polluted with accusations of astroturfing against specific users.

> I don't think that the mods deny the astroturfing happening. They're actively looking out for and removing it.

What I've understood from comments from dang so far is that it's mostly allegations based on feelings of disbelief ("no sane person could ever believe that, this user must be a paid shill") and when they look at it there's nothing to see. It doesn't seem to be an actual issue, more of a moral panic and a blunt instrument to silent dissent.

Re: China suppression of Uighurs meets U.N. definition of genocide, report says

#120

Post by agakshat »

balola wrote: post #6

#VICENewsTonight China’s Vanishing Muslims: Undercover In The Most Dystopian Place In The World https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7AYyUqrMuQ

Thank you for sharing that. Really strongly recommend everyone to watch this video, a rare glimpse at the people inside this nightmare
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