China suppression of Uighurs meets U.N. definition of genocide, report says • Hacker News Board

Re: China suppression of Uighurs meets U.N. definition of genocide, report says

#41

Post by okasaki » Sun, Jul 05, 2020, 4:38 PM UTC

AHappyCamper wrote: post #23

I understand that China is extremely powerful both militarily and economically, but it just makes me so sad that such atrocities against humanity are occurring at the hands of a superpower, deep into the 21st century. Forgive my naiveté, but aren't we supposed to be past this type of thing as a species already? Wasn't that the whole point of the 20th century - to show us all the things we shouldn't be doing?

Are we? A survery in The Lancet estimated that the Iraq invasion caused an excess of 650k deaths by October 2006. A simple extrapolation would surely put the excess deaths in the middle east into millions.

It's different though. We're the good guys.

Re: China suppression of Uighurs meets U.N. definition of genocide, report says

#42

Post by oefrha » Sun, Jul 05, 2020, 4:38 PM UTC

balola wrote: post #37

oefrha wrote: post #8

It’s not like China didn’t have mandatory birth control on the ethnic majority.

The difference is now the population growth is collapsing, even after they loosened the limit to 2 kids per family, China desperately needs more babies.

> loosened the limit to 2 kids per family

Still a limit, and a low one at that, so doesn’t sound “desperate” at all.

TFA says “I uncovered evidence that the Uighurs are subject to internment in camps if they violate birth control policies, have too many children.” Presumably too many is greater than 2, but who knows.

Re: China suppression of Uighurs meets U.N. definition of genocide, report says

#43

Post by nabla9 » Sun, Jul 05, 2020, 4:39 PM UTC

AHappyCamper wrote: post #23

I understand that China is extremely powerful both militarily and economically, but it just makes me so sad that such atrocities against humanity are occurring at the hands of a superpower, deep into the 21st century. Forgive my naiveté, but aren't we supposed to be past this type of thing as a species already? Wasn't that the whole point of the 20th century - to show us all the things we shouldn't be doing?

> we supposed to be past this type of thing as a species already?

There is no indication of that.

Just decade after WWII British government did yet another genocide in Kenya. Concentration camps, floggings, torture and rapes. After that there has been many others.

Re: China suppression of Uighurs meets U.N. definition of genocide, report says

#44

Post by luckylion » Sun, Jul 05, 2020, 4:40 PM UTC

graeme wrote: post #14

dis-sys wrote: post #12

Seriously, suppression of birth? According the exact same logic used by this ZENZ guy, China's majority group (Han) has been subjected to such "genocide" for decades. As a result of such "suppression", only 400 million Han Chinese were born in the last 30 years rather than the estimated 800+ million.

There’s an obvious difference between suppressing births of all groups vs. suppressing only a particular group.

It wasn't about "all groups" though, ethnic minorities (like the Uighur) were exempt or allowed to have more children.

Re: China suppression of Uighurs meets U.N. definition of genocide, report says

#45

Post by onetimemanytime » Sun, Jul 05, 2020, 4:40 PM UTC

AHappyCamper wrote: post #23

I understand that China is extremely powerful both militarily and economically, but it just makes me so sad that such atrocities against humanity are occurring at the hands of a superpower, deep into the 21st century. Forgive my naiveté, but aren't we supposed to be past this type of thing as a species already? Wasn't that the whole point of the 20th century - to show us all the things we shouldn't be doing?

If USA, EU, Canada, Australia, Japan, SK and a few other countries agree, they can make China pay. But they are too fractured and each country might be looking to get a better deal out of China.

Re: China suppression of Uighurs meets U.N. definition of genocide, report says

#46

Post by yorwba » Sun, Jul 05, 2020, 4:41 PM UTC

Aperocky wrote: post #18

oefrha wrote: post #8

It’s not like China didn’t have mandatory birth control on the ethnic majority.

As a bonus, the mandatory birth controls were recently expanded to ethnic minorities as they were previously exempt.

It's the other way around: rural ethnic minorities were previously allowed three children. This limit hasn't changed, but Han Chinese in rural areas are now allowed to have the same number of children.

Re: China suppression of Uighurs meets U.N. definition of genocide, report says

#47

Post by ironman1478 » Sun, Jul 05, 2020, 4:41 PM UTC

AHappyCamper wrote: post #23

I understand that China is extremely powerful both militarily and economically, but it just makes me so sad that such atrocities against humanity are occurring at the hands of a superpower, deep into the 21st century. Forgive my naiveté, but aren't we supposed to be past this type of thing as a species already? Wasn't that the whole point of the 20th century - to show us all the things we shouldn't be doing?

As I've gotten older, I've come to really feel like humans just haven't been around that long and we really haven't progressed that much outside of technology. WW2 wasn't really that long ago and neither was the the American civil war, both wars based on race and atrocities. I think it's a bit of a fallacy to think that just because some country is technology and economically advanced it will have correct moral values. Germany in WW2 is an example of that and so is America now imo, it's just that in America we aren't as far gone (but there are people in America who probably wouldn't mind killing other groups).

Re: China suppression of Uighurs meets U.N. definition of genocide, report says

#48

Post by nyolfen » Sun, Jul 05, 2020, 4:41 PM UTC

sneak wrote: post #21

chapium wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lets talk about china right now.

I don’t have any direct political ability to meaningfully influence policy in China. I, in theory, can participate in US elections and purportedly have some say in how things are done in the US. Additionally, I don’t have a language barrier to inciting others to action in the US. I think it’s a very hypocritical situation, and I wonder specifically about the who and the why for the huge anti-China campaign in the glo…

i'm sure this is what the 'america first' crowd told themselves in the 30s.

china sees us as rivals and has designs on our allies and global institutions. ignoring them is at our own peril.

america has deep problems, like any country, but you are a fool if you think that a chinese hegemon would leave us better off or that the ccp can be ignored.

Re: China suppression of Uighurs meets U.N. definition of genocide, report says

#49

Post by oliwarner » Sun, Jul 05, 2020, 4:43 PM UTC

ReptileMan wrote: post #27

wcerfgba wrote: post #3

For UK citizens, there is an open petition to Parliament asking the UK Government to impose sanctions on China as a response: https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/300146

UK cannot simultaneously piss off Brussels and Beijing. Not going to happen. And UK is 1/6th of China economy.

The UK was 1/6. Back when we had a financial services sector, before we brucked it all up for blue passports.

Strange how we ever punched that high. We only have 1/23 the people, and barely make anything ourselves these days.

Re: China suppression of Uighurs meets U.N. definition of genocide, report says

#50

Post by s_y_n_t_a_x » Sun, Jul 05, 2020, 4:43 PM UTC

baskire wrote: post #30

AHappyCamper wrote: post #23

I understand that China is extremely powerful both militarily and economically, but it just makes me so sad that such atrocities against humanity are occurring at the hands of a superpower, deep into the 21st century. Forgive my naiveté, but aren't we supposed to be past this type of thing as a species already? Wasn't that the whole point of the 20th century - to show us all the things we shouldn't be doing?

Surprised trump doesn’t use this to place sanctions on China and up his base’s support.

He's been pretty tough on them compared to past presidents with the 25% tariff, plus he has a sanction bill coming to his desk to sign.

> The Senate just passed a bill that further sanctions China by authorizing the Treasury Department to identify Chinese banks and financial firms which enable the Communist Party regime, and punish them by restricting their access to the US dollar and visas for their executives.

> Unlike past Chinese sanction bills, the restrictions will apply not just to individuals, but the banks that employ them. And it will apply not just to Chinese-owned banks, but subsidiaries of American companies operating in the country.