Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The Fourth of July

popehat.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

181–190 of 324 posts

Re: The Fourth of July

#181

Post by redis_mlc »

The article is written in a dramatic fashion, but lacks historical context.

The Philippines was liberated early from the Japanese at the request of Douglas MacArthur. It was not a top military priority, and the planners wanted to skip it, but President Roosevelt authorized the invasion as a symbolic and political goal.

So millions of Filipinos got their freedom from the US. Yes, it was wrong to delay citizenship for a few thousand Filipinos who fought, but in the overall scheme, not that significant.

Until today, many Filipinos want US statehood.

And a lot of other Pacific island nations got their freedom back from the USA, most notably Indonesia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_MacArthur

Re: The Fourth of July

#182

Post by rconti »

hirundo wrote: post #40

There seems to be more hatred for this country, from within, than ever before in my life. This has been trending all day: https://twitter.com/search?q=%23FvckTheForth&src=trend_click Yet I still love it more than not. That seems to make me an "other" to so many of these people.

Solution: Don't use twitter. It's the best way to seek out the most toxic trolls on the planet.

Re: The Fourth of July

#183

Post by hef19898 »

beaner wrote: post #157
weiming wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What me and my family talked about today is that, as immigrants, we are so sad how much the "native born" people of the US hate their own country. They seem to never waste an opportunity to remind others of their disdain and it is more and more visible these days e.g. in big news media or on Twitter. Makes me sad and I hope this can change.

I feel like I might get downvoted for this, but a large part of it comes from a sense of guilt about clearly being the most successful and powerful country in the world. When nearly everyone else on earth constantly gives you shit (while also trying to enter...) many people here have started accepting those foreign perspectives and seeing themselves as spoiled and privileged. I can remember this being true from when…

There is a huge difference between seeing and accepting the bad things, past and present, and hating ones own country. A lot of people I know, that share your opinion, seem to overcompensate for all the bad things. They try to ignore them, and everyone pointing these bad things out has automatically fail to see the good things, thus hating ones country. This is a very slippery slope.

Re: The Fourth of July

#184

Post by hef19898 »

hintymad wrote: post #74
myrandomcomment wrote: post #2

As a father, a husband, a former soldier and an American, this brings a tear to my eye. “We are not enemies, but friends. We must not be enemies. Though passion may have strained, it must not break our bonds of affection. The mystic chords of memory will swell when again touched, as surely they will be, by the better angels of our nature.” - Lincoln As an American I feel we are bound not by our failures of past moral…

The main stream media and the elites are supporting the cancel culture. In fact, they fuel it -- both WaPo and NYT published articles about why 7/4 should be canceled. That's okay, as a country needs different voice and people have different political spectrum by nature. What's disappointing, though, is that the conservatives do not have a big enough platform to publish well-argued counter points, even though "conser…

Ever heard of Fox News and OAN?

Re: The Fourth of July

#185

Post by kergonath »

vore wrote: post #154
magicsmoke wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The interesting thing is that despite what America did to these Filipino soldiers, they still chose to be American and sacrificed the majority of their life to do so. American immigration really is the ultimate test of loyalty. Makes you wonder how many natural-born Americans would still choose to be American if they had to go through the immigration experience first. Now that's an idea. People aren't born American c…

That's literally fascism. Creating a society of citizens around who passes an arbitrary test of "are you really American" is as clear-cut of a definition of fascism as you can get.

Yeah, the whole thing sounds dangerous and deeply disturbing. Surely, we need less nationalism and more understanding, not the other way around.

Blind loyalty tests are just a way of controlling people and apply peer pressure. It is a perfect description of an abusive relationship, as well as the standard totalitarian play book. Try: - ”you aren't born my son but as probationary son, and you only become my real son after fulfilling a series of trials (that I decided arbitrarily to satisfy my arbitrary sense of how you should be)”. - “you are my probationary spouse, and you only become my real spouse after fulfilling a series of trials.”

Re: The Fourth of July

#186

Post by hef19898 »

rayiner wrote: post #93
filleduchaos wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> American immigration really is the ultimate test of loyalty. Frankly, more and more people are starting to wake up to the fact that it's a bullshit test. Partly because immigration really doesn't have to be all that, and partly because of the global...decline of the United States' image since the turn of the century. When I was a kid moving to the US was the goal, now only a handful of people I know have it at the…

Canada is great. It’s virtually indistinguishable from America for the typical person. I don’t know where you’re from, but as a Bangladeshi immigrant to the US, but I wouldn’t emigrate to the EU. 76% of Americans say that a naturalized citizen is a “real American” and just 13% disagree: https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default/files/ct/news/documents/... . In France it’s 55-28. In Italy it’s 41-36. There is no place in th…

Right wing parties won the UK, if you want to call Boris Johnson that. They lost in France, biggly. They lost in the Netherlands. They won some state elections in Germany, if becoming the biggest opposition party in state parliaments without any chance of governing can be called winning (they got more votes than I am comfortable with, so).

But who again held Congress until 2018 and still holds the Senate and the Presidency in the US?

Re: The Fourth of July

#187

Post by kergonath »

rayiner wrote: post #77
c3534l wrote: post #72

Given this introduction: > I've re-posted this many times, because it's fundamental to what it means to me to be an American. I was thinking I was in for something uplifting. Instead I got: > In 1946, Congress reneged on FDR's promise. Filipino solders who fought for us and their families were not given their promised citizenship, let alone benefits. ... They waited 44 years, until after most of them were dead. This…

This story isn’t about Truman and the other people who reneged on the promise in 1946–who were all dead by 1992. That’s a very self-centered way to look at this. This is a story about immigrants who loved America so much that they proudly accepted citizenship when it was belatedly conferred to them. What kind of country engenders such love and devotion even in the face of such slights?

You mean, it’s about Stockholm syndrome?

Re: The Fourth of July

#188

Post by hef19898 »

rayiner wrote: post #107
vore wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even from just examining the present, it's hard to find much to like about how the US is handling a pandemic.

We have fewer Covid deaths per capita than four of the five biggest countries in the EU. Do you think people in France or Spain are “ashamed” of their country’s handling of the outbreak?

Well for now. With cases rising like crazy in the US, it fair to assume deaths will follow.

It always puzzles me that this kind of argument goes "we are the best" -> "here are numbers that show you are not" -> "but we are not the worst, look over there". Kind of like discussing sports teams. Same fanboyism.

France just replaced the government, the prime minister that is, after the local elections. The former prime minister is being investigated over his treatment of the Covid-19 pandemic.

Re: The Fourth of July

#189

Post by hef19898 »

rayiner wrote: post #125
c3534l wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its great that they didn't hold a grudge, but I don't see why I should be moved by it. Of course they were happy, they were finally being given what they were promised. A prisoner being exonerated of a crime they were falsely accused would probably be ecstatic, but hearing the story of someone being falsely convicted hardly engenders feelings of pride in our justice system. I don't see why it should be different in t…

> Its great that they didn't hold a grudge, but I don't see why I should be moved by it. Of course they were happy, they were finally being given what they were promised. This is an extremely shallow take. These men emigrated to the US at a time when Filipinos were legally American nationals. They were not citizens, but were already entitled to permanent residency, and their kids were already citizens by birthright.…

You seem to somehow glorify the US a bit too much. Great that you as an immigrant had success. But just be aware that this is not always the case, and that there are a lot of negative aspects about the US, or any other country.

Re: The Fourth of July

#190

Post by hootbootscoot »

weiming wrote: post #42
myrandomcomment wrote: post #2

As a father, a husband, a former soldier and an American, this brings a tear to my eye. “We are not enemies, but friends. We must not be enemies. Though passion may have strained, it must not break our bonds of affection. The mystic chords of memory will swell when again touched, as surely they will be, by the better angels of our nature.” - Lincoln As an American I feel we are bound not by our failures of past moral…

What me and my family talked about today is that, as immigrants, we are so sad how much the "native born" people of the US hate their own country. They seem to never waste an opportunity to remind others of their disdain and it is more and more visible these days e.g. in big news media or on Twitter. Makes me sad and I hope this can change.

Do they hate their country or the wicked humans and laws ruling it? Do they hate their country or love it deeply and want it changed for the better?

Does criticism equal hatred in your mind?

Post reply on HN