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Google-backed groups criticize Apple's new warnings on user tracking

uk.reuters.com

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Re: Google-backed groups criticize Apple's new warnings on user tracking

#181

Post by JIBitator »

1propionyl wrote: post #172
spacephysics wrote: post #31

I see a resurgence in marketing similar to Mad Men: where firms don’t have access to highly personalized data, and eventually, will actually have to be creative, instead of just using algorithms parameterized with user tracking/profile data

The future of marketing is already here, and it's influencer marketing, as well as more subtle forms of manipulation on social media. I guess you could call it creative. But it's also even more insidious and dishonest.

On reddit there more and more companies that manipulate threads in their favors.

On niche porn subreddits, the feeds are now invaded by profiles with links to onlyfans pages. They are sneaky because they verify their accounts with photoshopped pictures.

Re: Google-backed groups criticize Apple's new warnings on user tracking

#182

Post by kilburn »

humaniania wrote: post #178
baryphonic wrote: post #147

> Sixteen marketing associations, some of which are backed by Facebook Inc (FB.O) and Alphabet Inc’s (GOOGL.O) Google, faulted Apple for not adhering to an ad-industry system for seeking user consent under European privacy rules. Apps will now need to ask for permission twice, increasing the risk users will refuse, the associations argued. I was taken aback when I read that sixteen(!) agencies had banded together, in…

Do you seriously think that all business decisions are based on economic greed? Some people do have values and morality and integrity.

I do think they are on any company that is not majority-owned by someone that cares.

Morality and integrity are acceptable in large companies so long as they can bring some benefit. Otherwise they somehow always seem to find a way to justify doing even the most immorally-seeming stuff (like exploiting workers in third-world-country mines, selling weapons to dictators and so on).

What's more important: why wouldn't it be like this? Why would a top-level exec leave money on the table for moral reasons? How would they sell that to their stakeholders?

Re: Google-backed groups criticize Apple's new warnings on user tracking

#183

Post by longtimegoogler »

I found it a bit ironic that Apple didn't require users to grant permission to its own measurement tool, "because it is engineered to not track users".

I don't know the details but I am guess it is still accesses the same numeric id and "trusting" that Apple is doing the right thing behind the scenes, i.e., only storing aggregate information is still required.

Re: Google-backed groups criticize Apple's new warnings on user tracking

#184

Post by rsynnott »

baryphonic wrote: post #147

> Sixteen marketing associations, some of which are backed by Facebook Inc (FB.O) and Alphabet Inc’s (GOOGL.O) Google, faulted Apple for not adhering to an ad-industry system for seeking user consent under European privacy rules. Apps will now need to ask for permission twice, increasing the risk users will refuse, the associations argued. I was taken aback when I read that sixteen(!) agencies had banded together, in…

> Apps will now need to ask for permission twice, increasing the risk users will refuse, the associations argued.

Oh noes!

Re: Google-backed groups criticize Apple's new warnings on user tracking

#185

Post by rsynnott »

hn_check wrote: post #60
notatoad wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i can't imagine how somebody could see the creative process in Mad Men and think that's something to be emulated. It's a bunch of privileged rich people (ad execs) coming up with ideas that they think are clever, and the only criteria for whether or not those ideas are good is if other privileged rich people (client company execs) agree. There's no objective measures of success, just a bunch of people patting each ot…

I'm pretty sure there is an "objective measure of success" in the most plainly obvious way possible -- sales. Versus the bullshitty stats like impressions or accidental click-throughs that dominate online advertising.

It's remarkably difficult to measure the actual impact of that sort of brand-building marketing. And was basically impossible in the timeframe that Mad Men was set; they just didn't have the observability.

Re: Google-backed groups criticize Apple's new warnings on user tracking

#186

Post by jackjeff »

longtimegoogler wrote: post #183

I found it a bit ironic that Apple didn't require users to grant permission to its own measurement tool, "because it is engineered to not track users". I don't know the details but I am guess it is still accesses the same numeric id and "trusting" that Apple is doing the right thing behind the scenes, i.e., only storing aggregate information is still required.

Sounds perfectly reasonable. Apple only cares about the data in aggregate. They don’t need to track individual users. An advertiser, on the other hand, wants to know your age, sex, location and what you hard for breakfast.

Re: Google-backed groups criticize Apple's new warnings on user tracking

#187

Post by bobthepanda »

tomjen3 wrote: post #161
crazygringo wrote: post #68

> Apple last week disclosed features in its forthcoming operating system for iPhones and iPads that will require apps to show a pop-up screen before they enable a form of tracking commonly needed to show personalized ads. Christ almighty I don't think I can take more pop-ups. They're just cancer. Cookies, newsletters, forced logins, individual folder permissions... how many bullshit popups do I have to deal with per…

Agreed. We need a standard that forbid websites from making popups and setting cookies if the do not track flag is set - alternatively we need all cookies to be marked as optional or required (per the GDPR) and then browsers can handle what to do with them, including just ignoring them completely.

we don't even need a standard, that's what DNT is

we need a law enforcing the standard to have teeth. otherwise it's just yet another standard not doing anything.

Re: Google-backed groups criticize Apple's new warnings on user tracking

#188

Post by rsynnott »

rubber_duck wrote: post #97
scarface74 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is merely a “strategy credit”. Apple makes almost all of its money by people giving them money directly and them giving you stuff. They can afford to be privacy focused. If you’re okay with cheap, unpolished products where you are constantly being tracked and getting advertised to, buy a Google product. If you want products where you give the company money and they give you stuff - buy Apple.

>Apple makes almost all of its money by people giving them money directly and them giving you stuff. The story used to be "they are making money on hardware", then when that peaked it became "they are making money on services", once they peak in that market it's going to be "they are monitizing the content delivered through the ecosystem to provide a curated and safe experience" - it's all about showing growth an kee…

> The story used to be "they are making money on hardware", then when that peaked it became "they are making money on services",

The story is still that they're making money on hardware; over 80% of their revenue (and potentially more of their profits; profit margin on the music stuff in particular can't be great).

Re: Google-backed groups criticize Apple's new warnings on user tracking

#189

Post by bobthepanda »

papeda wrote: post #65
csmattryder wrote: post #11

It's cool to conciously see the death of an industry and watch as marketing firms fail to migrate away from traditional ads. You can whinge and whine, but progress stops for nobody. It's also great to see Apple building this into iOS, definitely a highlight of WWDC, for me. I often see the location indicator come on and wonder what else I'm not seeing.

There seem to be two conflicting lines of thought about the future of advertising. 1) Companies are learning that non-online advertising is not very worthwhile and so are reducing the resources allocated to, say, network TV ads. This has already happened to a large extent to print and radio advertising. This suggests that the future of online advertising is bright. 2) Companies are learning that online advertising is…

this has always been the problem with advertising.

the old chestnut goes, “Half the money I spend on advertising is wasted; the trouble is I don't know which half”.

Re: Google-backed groups criticize Apple's new warnings on user tracking

#190

Post by jackjeff »

fairenough42 wrote: post #25
justapassenger wrote: post #23

> Apple engineers also said last week the company will bolster a free Apple-made tool that uses anonymous, aggregated data to measure whether advertising campaigns are working and that will not trigger the pop-up. > “Because it’s engineered to not track users, there’s no need to request permission to track,” Brandon Van Ryswyk, an Apple privacy engineer, said in a video session explaining the measurement tool to deve…

Are they moving into ads as the hardware business dries up for them? In my personal experience, many people don't replace their phones as often as they did, say, 10 years ago. A similar story played out earlier with laptops. There's no obvious new hardware category for Apple to pivot into so maybe software is their next play.

They’re selling watches, they just released the iPhone SE which competes with mid-range Android phones, and they have new revenues from their rent seeking activities on App Store and Apple Pay. In addition, their new line of Mac ARM will remove the Intel tax. I think they’ll do just fine without becoming another advertisement company.
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