EU safety agency suspends Pakistani airlines' European authorisation • Hacker News Board

Re: EU safety agency suspends Pakistani airlines' European authorisation

#61

Post by meigwilym » Fri, Jul 03, 2020, 10:00 AM UTC

stingraycharles wrote: post #39

godsplan1 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not sure where is this coming from ... I reported the statement as it is .. the thing to worry about is this : The crew was overconfident and not focussed.

I think the main concern is that you created your account just to post this, and it can be interpreted as politically opinionated. In today’s social media climate, one needs to be fairly sceptical when it comes to this kind of stuff. Having said this, I confirm that this excerpt comes directly from the report.

Especially when their username is "godsplan1".

Re: EU safety agency suspends Pakistani airlines' European authorisation

#62

Post by AdrianB1 » Fri, Jul 03, 2020, 10:00 AM UTC

pycbr1 wrote: post #34

vinay427 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the OP was referring to Pakistan. More problematic in this respect are the UN accords that allow people from virtually any country to drive while visiting any other country, so you can have people from poorly licensed countries driving in a place where they're unfamiliar with the road system, language, etc. The EU/EEA reciprocity is due to EU regulations, not the assumption that every EU country has better dr…

I was indeed referring to Pakistan. A decade or so ago, you had to bribe a person or two in order to get your license at the dmv, and they made the actual driving test next to impossible to pass, something like "Make a reverse L shape without hitting any cones" the L being a very tight fit. If you didn't have a DL, you'd pay a bribe every time you were pulled over, although the bribes would be to the tune of $1, alth…

Same situation in other places, even in Europe. In Romania not only that in small cities this is the only way to get a permit, even if you drive well, but we have people that cannot read but having a driver license.

Corruption is a "well known secret" in every country in the world.

Re: EU safety agency suspends Pakistani airlines' European authorisation

#63

Post by netsharc » Fri, Jul 03, 2020, 10:03 AM UTC

biztos wrote: post #55

ohlookabird wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems to be the current list of rules for non EU countries and US states to transfer the driver's license to the German one after six months (linked by ADAC): https://res.cloudinary.com/adacde/image/upload/v1572337531/A... After having lived 5+ years in Virginia in the US and knowing multiple people that got their driver's license in Virginia, I am really surprised that apparently people with Virginia issued dri…

That list is missing some US states. Any idea why?

It just list the states where one or both exams (theory, practical) are required (column 2 or 3 has "ja") or exempted ("nein"). If a state is missing (like California), a Cali licence holder needs to take both exams to get their licence converted to a German one.

I'm not sure if they'd have to do the whole driving school (there are mandatory 12 hours one has to drive in Germany, with a driving teacher), or if they can just pass the exams and get a German licence.

Interestingly, Switzerland converts all US licences with no exam requirements. I wonder if someone can move there, get their licence converted, and then move to Germany and convert their Swiss licence to a German one...

Re: EU safety agency suspends Pakistani airlines' European authorisation

#64

Post by aembleton » Fri, Jul 03, 2020, 10:04 AM UTC

Jdam wrote: post #60

If this doesn't apply to the UK as well, it is not enough. I would like to see a flyover ban as well, as PIA flies through the EU to the UK. I'm following the aviation industry closely and there are plenty of reports every now and then where PIA flights don't respond on radio anymore, triggering fighter intercepts. It is assumed that those pilots are oftentimes either sleeping or just don't bother because of their eg…

Following the EASA’s decision, the UK Civil Aviation Authority said it, too, was withdrawing PIA’s permit to operate from three of its airports, as required under law.

“PIA flights from Birmingham, London Heathrow and Manchester airports are suspended with immediate effect,” a spokesman for the UK authority told Reuters.

Source: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-pakistan-airlines-eu/eu-s...

Re: EU safety agency suspends Pakistani airlines' European authorisation

#65

Post by baybal2 » Fri, Jul 03, 2020, 10:06 AM UTC

throwaway_12351 wrote: post #51

baybal2 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Heavily subsidised gulf carriers (many of which were founded by ex-PIA cadres...) have ate the lunch of the few Pakistani private carriers. PIA used to be nation's pride from its better days, so it's politically hard to rectify it when people with statist sentiment now run the establishment. Just like Pakrail, and PSM, PIA will be kept afloat, and safe away from privatisation. Khan's administration took down Sharif,…

Thanks! Just out of curiosity, do the gulf carriers keep PIA in high regard and have a friendly relationship or they are continuously trying to bring it down? The whole "we have grounded people with fake license" sounds like someone knew about it previously, and they are conspiring against PIA. I don't think PIA would be aware of fake licenses and keep them as well? or it took them just a few weeks to find out people…

> Thanks! Just out of curiosity, do the gulf carriers keep PIA in high regard and have a friendly relationship or they are continuously trying to bring it down?

Pakistani airlines were not the only ones whom Gulf carriers have brought down. They dominate the entire region, and rightfully so (aside from heavy subsidies.) Their service is superb.

PIA used to be a much more higher-end airline, and it was on top of global ranks before the troubles started in the country. A lot of Pakistan's talent called it quit at that point, and immigrated en masse, aviation cadres included. A lot of them settled in the UAE, where they crossed paths with the gulf money, and set the foundation for many of Emirati airlines.

Naturally, conquering Pakistani market was very easy for them given their local knowledge.

> I don't think PIA would be aware of fake licenses and keep them as well?

They would. The phenomenon started with Gen. Zia (who died in an airplane crash, ironically.) The country has been ruled by three political dynasties that effectively normalised the state when state companies were given away to children, relatives, and friends to be ran like family businesses.

A double digit of all professionals in the country are fake degree holders, and that's not surprising in a country where now two generations of people were raised internalising the idea that earning money straight, and fair was made impossible as such, per-design.

Re: EU safety agency suspends Pakistani airlines' European authorisation

#66

Post by hyperman1 » Fri, Jul 03, 2020, 10:07 AM UTC

enriquto wrote: post #35

netsharc wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get the impression the last sentence is written (and you copy-pasted) with a bit of sneer towards their religion; in case it is, how many videos have we seen of Americans watching disaster unfolding and repeatedly saying "Ehmagerd, ehmagerd, ehmagerd"? Your account is 2 minutes older than this post... do we need to worry?

How can you deduce the religion of the pilot from these words? It is just a common expression in many languages, even non-religious people. I don't know anything about urdu, but a postdoc in my lab is an arab-speaking christian and he says that all the time. Likewise an arab speaking muslim would say that.

'Allah' is just an arabian translation for 'God'. Both arab christians as arab muslims use it to refer to the object of their respective belief.

You might want to question why muslims drop arab words in their non-arab current language.

Then again, thanks to hollywood, most non-english speakers say stuff like 'oh fuck' in their non english sentences. Sometimes they don't even know enough english to realize they are basically requesting supernatural intervention from the act of human procreation.

Re: EU safety agency suspends Pakistani airlines' European authorisation

#67

Post by hyperman1 » Fri, Jul 03, 2020, 10:09 AM UTC

meigwilym wrote: post #61

stingraycharles wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the main concern is that you created your account just to post this, and it can be interpreted as politically opinionated. In today’s social media climate, one needs to be fairly sceptical when it comes to this kind of stuff. Having said this, I confirm that this excerpt comes directly from the report.

Especially when their username is "godsplan1".

Could be worse. If it was godsplan2, He would have made a mistake ;-)

Re: EU safety agency suspends Pakistani airlines' European authorisation

#68

Post by newsbinator » Fri, Jul 03, 2020, 10:10 AM UTC

Jdam wrote: post #60

If this doesn't apply to the UK as well, it is not enough. I would like to see a flyover ban as well, as PIA flies through the EU to the UK. I'm following the aviation industry closely and there are plenty of reports every now and then where PIA flights don't respond on radio anymore, triggering fighter intercepts. It is assumed that those pilots are oftentimes either sleeping or just don't bother because of their eg…

> triggering fighter intercepts

Also this costs tax money. Why spend the money on intercepts when you can ban the people causing the problems?

Re: EU safety agency suspends Pakistani airlines' European authorisation

#69

Post by throwaway_12351 » Fri, Jul 03, 2020, 10:15 AM UTC

baybal2 wrote: post #65

throwaway_12351 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks! Just out of curiosity, do the gulf carriers keep PIA in high regard and have a friendly relationship or they are continuously trying to bring it down? The whole "we have grounded people with fake license" sounds like someone knew about it previously, and they are conspiring against PIA. I don't think PIA would be aware of fake licenses and keep them as well? or it took them just a few weeks to find out people…

> Thanks! Just out of curiosity, do the gulf carriers keep PIA in high regard and have a friendly relationship or they are continuously trying to bring it down? Pakistani airlines were not the only ones whom Gulf carriers have brought down. They dominate the entire region, and rightfully so (aside from heavy subsidies.) Their service is superb. PIA used to be a much more higher-end airline, and it was on top of globa…

thank you!

Re: EU safety agency suspends Pakistani airlines' European authorisation

#70

Post by redis_mlc » Fri, Jul 03, 2020, 10:16 AM UTC

t0mas88 wrote: post #5

redis_mlc wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I watched the video - fair coverage. The importance of being on top of licenses and other paperwork is that if you can't get the paperwork right, how can you get the rest right? Some other notables: - India has identical fake license problems as Pakistan - South Korea has CRM and sim evaluation issues with ex-military crews (resulting in the SFO crash) - SFO has struggled with ILS maintenance in the past decade. (For…

The SFO case is interesting, because it's not just "foreign crews don't like visual approaches". It's because the US is commonly using visual approaches kind of as a loophole to reduce separation. All major carriers require that crews use the ILS (or RNAV) as a backup to a visual approach if it's available. But by clearing for a visual approach the controller is no longer required to keep the planes on approach separ…

Well, the SK airliner basically couldn't find the ILS and descended below a safe level, ultimately hitting approach light stands in the Bay, and then the pier(!), and cartwheeling, possibly twice. It was actually filmed by a dude in Oakland. I would call that uncomfortable with visual approaches.

The only good news in this accident is that aeronautical structural engineers were quite impressed the plane stayed intact.

For more detail, one of the SFO ILS has been out of service or shutdown for about a a decade. They cost around $2 million (max) to install, so I don't get it. Major US airports charge over $10,000 per landing, so they can afford to maintain navaids.

The other notable thing was that the pilots sat stunned in the cockpit after the accident (likely knowing their careers were over), and a stewdardess took charge and ordered the evacuation after 90 seconds passed.