Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars

theverge.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

591–600 of 870 posts

Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars

#591

Post by pathseeker »

egypturnash wrote: post #124
jaywalk wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mean countries where you can be arrested for a tweet that offends someone? Yeah, no thanks.

Somehow I feel like this is a milder version of "an armed society is a polite society". Everyone has a gun? Rational people are theoretically less likely to try and piss people off, because they know everyone is carrying. It's super-easy to sue people for hate speech? Rational people are theoretically much more likely to consider their words, because they know everyone can get their ass fined and possibly imprisoned.…

>It's super-easy to sue people for hate speech? Rational people are theoretically much more likely to consider their words, because they know everyone can get their ass fined and possibly imprisoned.

Hate speech isn't well-defined though. It seems to just be a du jour list of things that upset people too much. What about a picture of a famous slave ship?

Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars

#592

Post by thatoneuser »

skinkestek wrote: post #545
FireBeyond wrote: post #519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that's what you got out of this, I'm not sure what to say. I even used the SCUBA shop, which is next door, for reference. No-one that I've seen has advocated that the OK sign be abandoned for divers. I've been mid mouthful at a restaurant when a server has asked how my food is and I've made this sign and not been called a racist. However, should I and half a dozen of my buddies, armed an in full tactical gear, sta…

A bloke (and a less privileged bloke at that, 75% non white according to himself) was recently fired because someone had shot a photo of him resting his hand out the window of a company truck in what lpoked line an OK hand. It was discussed here a few days ago. Stop firing the innocent or something, from the Atlantic.

Yet op before you was just saying "well if you make the sign a 'reasonable person' knows it's to be racist".

I cannot wrap my mind around the level of cognitive dissonance there is around racial things. Real people's lives are harmed by this overreaction.

Meanwhile on reddit it's cool to he racist if it's against white people.

Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars

#593

Post by ganoushoreilly »

GaryNumanVevo wrote: post #251
soraminazuki wrote: post #221

While it's emotionally pleasing to see racists being kicked out of online platforms, another side of me feels wary of these tactics. For starters, being deplatformed from major online players today would have serious consequences. Although it's true that these platforms are "private property," the entire society has become too reliant on them to be seen that way. I think it's dangerous when platforms function like a…

This assumes that racists are putting confederate flags on their cars in good faith. Also, what kind of discourse is so precious that it should be respected on the ... Forza decal platform?

A lot of these are General Lee dukes of hazard recreations. I wouldn't immediately assume that everyone with the livery was a racist, more people collecting historic car livery.

Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars

#594

Post by undersuit »

skinkestek wrote: post #545
FireBeyond wrote: post #519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that's what you got out of this, I'm not sure what to say. I even used the SCUBA shop, which is next door, for reference. No-one that I've seen has advocated that the OK sign be abandoned for divers. I've been mid mouthful at a restaurant when a server has asked how my food is and I've made this sign and not been called a racist. However, should I and half a dozen of my buddies, armed an in full tactical gear, sta…

A bloke (and a less privileged bloke at that, 75% non white according to himself) was recently fired because someone had shot a photo of him resting his hand out the window of a company truck in what lpoked line an OK hand. It was discussed here a few days ago. Stop firing the innocent or something, from the Atlantic.

One person being fired doesn't prove anything. The person who took the video is even upset that he accidentally hurt the person he was videoing.

Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars

#595

Post by holler »

BEEdwards wrote: post #525
holler wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that doesn't mean everyone else knows though, and it at least detoxifies the conversation to observers

so you mean they can use coded language to spread hate without being discovered? Almost like a dog whistle, that only some can hear...

I mean, ok... Is saying "fuck!" spreading hate? what about "you asshole!"? Sometimes humans just express their emotion using words. It isn't always about race. Gaming in particular evokes lots of emotions and always has. Personally I don't like when words are scrambled such as the case with Rocket League, because as someone else pointed out, you end up with barely being able to say anything without some part of it being scrambled. But I can understand the motivations for a company to do such a thing.

Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars

#596

Post by throwaway0a5e »

softwaredoug wrote: post #281

I don’t see how you can make a good faith argument the confederate flag is any different from a swastika. Both represent institutions built solely for racist motives and the subjugation of another race.

>I don’t see how you can make a good faith argument the confederate flag is any different from a swastika

The stars'n'bars is a relevant part of automotive history, see the Duke brothers, history of NASCAR, etc. Banning players who display it is similiar to banning players who stick swastikas or iron crosses on their Panthers and Tigers in a video game about tanks.

Culturally convenient or not it is part of the history of the subject matter and likewise it should stay.

Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars

#597

Post by pathseeker »

pfraze wrote: post #366
cm2187 wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In other words, the glorification of intolerance (“I find those ideas are dangerous, they shall be banned”).

Do you find the Paradox of Intolerance to be a dangerous idea? The premise is that maximalist tolerance means tolerating intolerant ideas, and that there's a risk that a movement of intolerance can form which destroys the culture of tolerance. It suggests that rational discourse might not always lead us away from intolerant views, and maximalist tolerance could therefore be self-defeating. You have to decide what's w…

You're talking past the point. You assume some idiots with slavery icons can't be embarrassed and shamed out of their views.

Where does this conclusion come from that rationality is so weak and our tolerant views are on such shaky ground that we have to prevent people from expressing intolerance?

Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars

#598

Post by dragonwriter »

jefftk wrote: post #236
dragonwriter wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Interesting that the Japanese rising sun flag is mentioned alongside the swastika and the stars and bars; The stars and bars, while also a Confederate symbol, is not really a notorious hate symbol; the Confederate flags that are notorious hate symbols are the “battle flag” (flag of the Army of Northern Virginia, also used as the union of the second and third national flags; square), and the second Confederate Naval…

> The stars and bars, while also a Confederate symbol, is not really a notorious hate symbol Confusingly, people often use "the Confederate Flag" and "the stars and bars" to refer to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Battle_flag_of_the_Confed... While technically both terms refer to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_of_the_Confederate_S... (and earlier variants) many people don't know that; look how many of th…

> While technically both terms refer to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Flag_of_the_Confederate_S.... (and earlier variants)

Well, the Confederate Flag refers to that and later national flags (the Stars and Bars is the first Confederate national flag, the Stainless Banner—with the battle flag in the union and a solid white field—and the Bloodstained Banner—adding a broad vertical red stripe to the Stainless Banner) were the second and third.

Not merely pedantic, it's worth noting that the Battle Flag is a key element of the later national flags, though not itself one of them. (Though what is often flown as the “Confederate flag” isn't the square battle flag, either, but closer to, if not exactly, the Naval Jack.)

Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars

#599

Post by pathseeker »

kube-system wrote: post #172
Darmody wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard a lot of young people in my country saying "you have freedom of speech, you can say what you want, but then you will face the consequences". Which makes me think they don't really know what freedom of speech is.

I don't follow. It sounds like they know exactly what it is. In some places, you can be prevented from saying something that others do not want you to say.

>In some places, you can be prevented from saying something that others do not want you to say.

Not really. The consequences in some places are just so severe that it might be one of the last things you say.

Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars

#600

Post by spoopyskelly »

andrewzah wrote: post #215
proc0 wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, rising sun flag is used in many games, since Japan is huge on games. First one that comes to mind is Street Fighter (E. Honda/Ryu stages and designs). This gon be interesting.

This is what I thought about too. I recently played sf2turbo via the 25th anniversary collection on the switch. Seeing the rising sun flag as a big part of the stage background did legitimately make me feel uncomfortable, knowing the atrocities committed under that flag.

If that flag is so triggering then you should probably avoid any history book, especially the ones about the UK, Spain or Portugal.
Post reply on HN