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MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars

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Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars

#391

Post by abrowne »

TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #360
filleduchaos wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminder that the Confederate battle flag was in use for less than five years and solely as an icon of a conflict that was very much about the (rather racist) keeping of chattel slaves. Before trotting out the "it's a symbol of heritage" line, ask yourself exactly what that heritage is.

Have you never been to a southern state? It's been flown ever since the war and has been detached from the war and attached to southern identity. It's part of the culture here.

And now there's increased interest in wanting to change that culture.

Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars

#392

Post by ThrowawayR2 »

paulchap wrote: post #315
soraminazuki wrote: post #221

While it's emotionally pleasing to see racists being kicked out of online platforms, another side of me feels wary of these tactics. For starters, being deplatformed from major online players today would have serious consequences. Although it's true that these platforms are "private property," the entire society has become too reliant on them to be seen that way. I think it's dangerous when platforms function like a…

> I think it's dangerous when platforms function like a public utility and is yet allowed to do whatever it wants because it's _technically_ private property. It _is_ private property. The companies in question are just exerting their rights. The users agreed to the ToS while signing up, and it's perfectly reasonable for them to cut off your access to their service, as long as it's within the legal bounds of the ToS.…

> "It _is_ private property. The companies in question are just exerting their rights."

So is Facebook and yet those applauding this are up-in-arms about FB's policies. Seems like a double standard.

Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars

#393

Post by [deleted] »

Hamuko wrote: post #318
lopmotr wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imperial Japan was extremely cruel to the people in the places it invaded - which was a lot. Human experimentation, massacring civilians, torture, comfort women. They were basically the Nazis of Asia. They also didn't apologize for it, still glorify their brutal heroes and teach disinformation about it to their schoolkids. Chinese people still have a strong anti-Japanese feeling.

I don't exactly consider dropping two atomic bombs on top of hundreds of thousands of civilians an act of kindness. Americans also don't exactly apologize for their acts, still glorify their brutal heroes (and even people who fought against their own country). There's probably a whole laundry list of war crimes (and things that really should be war crimes) that the US has committed. And there are a lot of anti-Americ…

[deleted]

Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars

#394

Post by tedunangst »

jeegsy wrote: post #358
rsynnott wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume Microsoft never allowed, say, swastikas. There's no reasonable expectation that you are able to spread racist propaganda in a car racing game (or for that matter in an actual car race; I think those tend to have very strict rules around decoration). I can see an _argument_ that Twitter, say, should be forced to pander to racists. I don't buy that argument, mind you, but I can at least see the thought process…

I'm assuming that swastikas have much more universal unpopularity than the confederacy flag. Heck, in 2020, MS just voted to remove confederate symbol from the state flag. SO I dont think the comparison is all there. My concern with these sort of deplatforming moves while understandable, is they tend to drive these bigoted ideas underground. So maybe they cant express it publicly but boy, do they find other ways to d…

Is the reverse even remotely close to true? If MS allowed confederate flags on cars, would the bigoted idea underground disappear?

Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars

#395

Post by philwelch »

softwaredoug wrote: post #278
drtillberg wrote: post #271

For the next act we'll censor images of the pyramids of Egypt, which were constructed by slave labor. And then we'll ban texts of the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution which was influenced by an enlightenment thinker, Voltaire, who also supported the slave trade. And for our next act we'll ban images of Washington, D.C. with its columns and white marble, which glorifies Roman slave-owning society.

The sole cause of the confederacy was defending the right for white men to own black slaves. All those other things were not solely about defending slavery.

You’re not wrong. It just doesn’t matter. The American Revolution has been cast by revisionist historians as another war to preserve slavery while protesters have toppled and threatened states of abolitionists, Union generals, and Abraham Lincoln.

Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars

#396

Post by tedunangst »

notyourday wrote: post #390
rsynnott wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. Amazon should be allowed do that (and of course, there's a lot of context there; if they started putting swastikas, or confederate flags, on the cars in Top Gear there might be more eyebrows raised). It probably shouldn't be _compelled_ to carry all material containing swastikas, though.

Ah, so they did it all over NYC subway a few years ago. To a point where I had to do a double take before I realized it was just an Amazon promo. There are quite a few Eastern Europeans and Jews in NYC. Why was that OK?

Are there pictures of these subway swastikas? (no, of course not.)

Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars

#397

Post by rayiner »

TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #360
filleduchaos wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reminder that the Confederate battle flag was in use for less than five years and solely as an icon of a conflict that was very much about the (rather racist) keeping of chattel slaves. Before trotting out the "it's a symbol of heritage" line, ask yourself exactly what that heritage is.

Have you never been to a southern state? It's been flown ever since the war and has been detached from the war and attached to southern identity. It's part of the culture here.

That begs the question. Why did southerners pick the battle flag of the war they fought to preserve slavery as the symbol for "southern identity?"

Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars

#398

Post by TheAdamAndChe »

abrowne wrote: post #391
TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you never been to a southern state? It's been flown ever since the war and has been detached from the war and attached to southern identity. It's part of the culture here.

And now there's increased interest in wanting to change that culture.

I understand the desire, but know that there are real-world reprocussions to such hamfisted attempts to leverage power, particularly before an election. Cultural issues and conflicts were a big part of why the 2016 presidential elections turned out the way they did.

Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars

#399

Post by lopmotr »

root_axis wrote: post #183
pfraze wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's newsworthy because there's a pretty significant debate occurring in the US about how private companies can moderate speech in their spaces. Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act is being actively relitigated by both parties (though it's not clear yet if anything will come of it).

> Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act is being actively relitigated by both parties I feel like I am taking crazy pills. We're talking about the creator of a video game banning the confederate flag in-game, we are a long way off from free speech rights in the supposed public square of a private enterprise. In what world can you imagine video game creators not being able to determine what kind of content is…

> In what world can you imagine video game creators not being able to determine what kind of content is acceptable in their own game.

You're over-generalizing. If a game explicitly banned players from creating characters that look like black people, would you still make that comment? I'm sure you can at least see why others would find that newsworthy.

Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars

#400

Post by notyourday »

tedunangst wrote: post #396
notyourday wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, so they did it all over NYC subway a few years ago. To a point where I had to do a double take before I realized it was just an Amazon promo. There are quite a few Eastern Europeans and Jews in NYC. Why was that OK?

Are there pictures of these subway swastikas? (no, of course not.)

Yeah, it was even in Gothamist. So I'm sure it is also in NYPost and Daily News.
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