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MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars

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Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars

#111
post #56

Honest question. For those of you happy that these censorship policies are being implemented by companies in reaction to pressure, do you believe that the ideal end-goal would be 'anti hate speech' laws like those of Germany?

Very soon even Facebook likes will be illegal in Germany if it's the "wrong" ones by the way. That law passed a week ago or two.

Please explain what law you are referring to - I have not heard anything of the sort.

Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars

#112

Honest question. For those of you happy that these censorship policies are being implemented by companies in reaction to pressure, do you believe that the ideal end-goal would be 'anti hate speech' laws like those of Germany?

"This slope isn't particularly sloppy" is the single best reply capturing the delusion and dishonesty of the people who celebrate the limiting of speech and expression heere. At least admit it proudly, that you are placing a punishment on vocalbulary and imposing self-censorship and thus invading privacy too. All these masks attempting to cover-up reduction of politics to friend/enemy distinction are even more insult…

Frankly, I consider this position to contribute much more greatly to the "reduction of politics to friend/enemy distinction" than any of the comments you're referring to. If a symbol of hatred is banned on a private platform and you consider that an attack on your politics, that makes it borderline impossible to believe that you are arguing in good faith.

Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars

#113

Honest question. For those of you happy that these censorship policies are being implemented by companies in reaction to pressure, do you believe that the ideal end-goal would be 'anti hate speech' laws like those of Germany?

No. It’s apples and oranges. Companies should be free to regulate hate speech on their platforms. The government should not regulate speech in the public domain. The actions of private companies on private property (virtual or otherwise) are an entirely different domain than government intervention. Even if you remove the censorship angle, it can be argued that moderating hate speech is simply good business sense. Pe…

Legal status of so called 'private companies', and their 'private property' is granted to them by the State. This distinction is meaningless, and another delusion of legal positivism, with the great tradition of making corporations people and babies not.

Besides this presumes something as in "hate speech" exists, let alone that some confederate flag is such speech. It's a not so subtle attempt at creating idea of "words as violence" and promoting arbitrary law enforcement and anarcho tyranny.

all around fake endeavour

Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars

#114

I am not very familiar with the American civil war. The way people talk about it seems weird to me though: it is as though the entire southern United States were overcome by an irresistible race hatred and they started a war in order to ensure their white supremacy- but mostly out of ignorance of the morals of this. I have a hard time believing the entire southern United States was only fighting for the right to own…

In the 1800s, the North embraced industrialization while the economy of the South continued to depend largely on slave ownership. So, like you guessed, it's not quite race hatred; more like race superiority. Slaveowners didn't hate black people, they liked them a lot, and wanted them to keep working for free. The North was going to take away their free labor, and the folks with money and power in the South didn't quite like that. My guess is that race hatred came later, when the white slaveowners saw their former slaves succeed in business, education, etc., while their former plantations rotted.

Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars

#115

Honest question. For those of you happy that these censorship policies are being implemented by companies in reaction to pressure, do you believe that the ideal end-goal would be 'anti hate speech' laws like those of Germany?

"This slope isn't particularly sloppy" is the single best reply capturing the delusion and dishonesty of the people who celebrate the limiting of speech and expression heere. At least admit it proudly, that you are placing a punishment on vocalbulary and imposing self-censorship and thus invading privacy too. All these masks attempting to cover-up reduction of politics to friend/enemy distinction are even more insult…

> At least admit it proudly, that you are placing a punishment on vocalbulary

Yes I admit it proudly, I live in a country that places a punishment on saying hateful things. I’m pretty fine with it

> and imposing self censorship

Life in society is based around self censorship. I don’t run around the city center naked, I don’t shit in storm grates, and I don’t shout Sieg Heil.

> invading privacy

No I don’t think anyone cares what you say to your friends within your home. We just won’t let you say it in public

Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars

#116
post #26

I'm curious why the confederate flag should get special treatment. I had relatives murdered in the Alamo. Should the Mexican flag get banned because I'm offended by it? Every flag represents a group that has been in the losing side of a war and killed opposing citizens or soldiers. Yet, those flags aren't banned.

Because the Confederacy existed primarily to defend the institution of slavery. That puts it in same, short, list as Nazi Germany in my book.

Many countries in the western hemisphere had slavery at the time.

Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars

#117

Interesting that the Japanese rising sun flag is mentioned alongside the swastika and the stars and bars; the rising sun flag remains in contemporary use by the Japanese Maritime Self Defense Force.

Wow, rising sun flag is used in many games, since Japan is huge on games. First one that comes to mind is Street Fighter (E. Honda/Ryu stages and designs). This gon be interesting.

Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars

#118
post #35

Honest question. For those of you happy that these censorship policies are being implemented by companies in reaction to pressure, do you believe that the ideal end-goal would be 'anti hate speech' laws like those of Germany?

Doing so would probably require amending the First Amendment, which I think would do more harm than good. But Germany seems to have implemented such a system without becoming a dystopian hellscape. Seems a pretty nice place to live.

There are already many things that don't count as free speech based on case law, if something like that were to happen in the U.S. it probably wouldn't be an amendment rather a major supreme court case.

Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars

#119

Why is this newsworthy? Random video game publisher implements arbitrary rule in video-game land. Seems to me like the goal of this story is just to stir up controversy over something that's not at all important. Anyone who plays a lot of online games knows that game publishers regularly ban users for a wide variety of arbitrary reasons, even mundane profanity is enough to earn a ban or suspension in many popular gam…

It's newsworthy because there's a pretty significant debate occurring in the US about how private companies can moderate speech in their spaces. Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act is being actively relitigated by both parties (though it's not clear yet if anything will come of it).

Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars

#120

I am not very familiar with the American civil war. The way people talk about it seems weird to me though: it is as though the entire southern United States were overcome by an irresistible race hatred and they started a war in order to ensure their white supremacy- but mostly out of ignorance of the morals of this. I have a hard time believing the entire southern United States was only fighting for the right to own…

> Wasn’t that a factor that was emphasized later?

If anything, the opposite is true. You can read the declarations of secession for the southern states; e.g. see South Carolina's [1]. They seceded to protect the institution of slavery. Surely some people had other reasons to support secession, but this is the primary one. Decades after the war ended, there was a push to deemphasize slavery as a cause for the war for reasons of propaganda and nostalgia.

[1] https://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_scarsec.asp

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