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MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars
81–90 of 870 posts
Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars
#82Earlier quoted context omitted.
> To me, that'd be a good outcome for the confederate flag. Where does it end?
At a point which is beyond the confederate flag. There may well be a slippery slope somewhere along this road, but it's not here. Gun advocates resist common sense reforms with the same logic, but lots of military weapons (minigun, flamethrower, rocket launcher, etc) are already either banned or highly regulated and have been for years without anyone's rights having been trampled.
Reminds me of when Trump a while ago (before the recent George Floyd stuff) was commenting on statues being torn down, and commented something like, "next they'll go for George Washington and Thomas Jefferson, where does it end?" John Oliver did a bit on it answering "Somewhere. It ends somewhere," implying that he was an idiot, that it was a stupid comment, and everybody laughed. Now we're here and it has actually happened in reality. It's even gone further. Roosevelt. Lincoln?? We even have prominent BLM figures saying the western portrayal of Christ is systemic racism and must be erased.
Since then I've come to see the answer "it ends somewhere" as completely void of any value or meaning, and mostly just a justification for mindless erasure. It's not a smart zinger, it's empty.
Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars
#83Honest question. For those of you happy that these censorship policies are being implemented by companies in reaction to pressure, do you believe that the ideal end-goal would be 'anti hate speech' laws like those of Germany?
Well, I would lie if I said that I do not appreciate that there are no cars rocking the nazi flag in Germany.
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Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars
#84Interesting that the Japanese rising sun flag is mentioned alongside the swastika and the stars and bars; the rising sun flag remains in contemporary use by the Japanese Maritime Self Defense Force.
Not really. The rising sun flag is the flag of the imperial Japanese army, the one that allied with Nazi Germany. They were brutal and deserve to be regarded in a similar manner to Nazi Germany.
The Japanese Maritime Self Defense Force flag is problematic. It's like Mississippi or Georgia's state flags before 2020, it's a call back to things that should be left in the history books.
Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars
#85Earlier quoted context omitted.
Like most European countries today? This slope doesn’t seem particularly slippy
You mean countries where you can be arrested for a tweet that offends someone? Yeah, no thanks.
Because that’s not already the case in the US? Ask a Muslim friend to post a joke about blowing up JFK and see how long it is until their door is broken down
Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars
#86Earlier quoted context omitted.
To me, that'd be a good outcome for the confederate flag. It is a hate symbol and exists almost exclusively to project hatred towards black people.
The problem with that is that it's a pretty slippery slope. Is this a hate symbol? If it is and it gets banned, will you also consider whatever other symbol gets co-opted?
>it's a pretty slippery slope.
I disagree.
>Is this a hate symbol?
I believe so.
>will you also consider whatever other symbol gets co-opted?
Yes, if it does get co-opted to the extent of replacing its original meaning. Luckily that only happens rarely. That's just how symbols and communication work - it's an unfortunate and unavoidable reality. The swastika is the most obvious example.
Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars
#87Earlier quoted context omitted.
> To me, that'd be a good outcome for the confederate flag. Where does it end?
Germany doesn't seem to have significant difficulty banning Nazi symbols and propaganda without accidentally banning, say, depictions of unicorns. Slippery slopes have varying levels of steepness.
I believe the parent poster is referring to the extremely recent reforms going on in Germany, which are above and beyond their historic control of Nazi symbols:
https://techcrunch.com/2020/06/19/germany-tightens-online-ha...
I don't have an opinion on this as it's way too fresh to have observed the effects of it and render a judgment; just here to provide context.
Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars
#88Earlier quoted context omitted.
No. It’s apples and oranges. Companies should be free to regulate hate speech on their platforms. The government should not regulate speech in the public domain. The actions of private companies on private property (virtual or otherwise) are an entirely different domain than government intervention. Even if you remove the censorship angle, it can be argued that moderating hate speech is simply good business sense. Pe…
>Companies should be free to regulate hate speech on their platforms. The government should not regulate speech in the public domain. While I agree, please direct me to where I can speak "in the public domain" online.
You can create your own website and and host it yourself.
Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars
#89I am not very familiar with the American civil war. The way people talk about it seems weird to me though: it is as though the entire southern United States were overcome by an irresistible race hatred and they started a war in order to ensure their white supremacy- but mostly out of ignorance of the morals of this. I have a hard time believing the entire southern United States was only fighting for the right to own…
Slavery was a huge economic driver as the economy of the south was largely agricultural.
> Wasn’t that a factor that was emphasized later?
States rights was a factor that was emphasized later. Historical documents indicate that the war was explicitly over slavery.
Re: MS will ban Forza players who add the confederate flag to their digital cars
#90I'm curious why the confederate flag should get special treatment. I had relatives murdered in the Alamo. Should the Mexican flag get banned because I'm offended by it? Every flag represents a group that has been in the losing side of a war and killed opposing citizens or soldiers. Yet, those flags aren't banned.
Google the phrase "Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery." and you'll have your answer.