Uber CEO Wants to Shift More Engineering Jobs to India, Sparking Internal Debate • Hacker News Board

Re: Uber CEO Wants to Shift More Engineering Jobs to India, Sparking Internal Debate

#21

Post by clavalle » Thu, Jul 02, 2020, 2:30 PM UTC

ixvvqktiwl wrote: post #4

I used to think this was a bad thing, but these days I'm not so sure. Assuming you can get the same (or similar) talent in India instead of the US, doesn't it make sense to do your development in a place where your money goes farther? The capitalist in me sees this as a win: more value for shareholders, and a big life improvement for Indians. Can someone explain to me why it's a bad thing? I understand it might be ba…

Oh, it's not a bad thing.

But competition works the other way, too.

Which developers are sitting around making less than a third of what other developers with the same skillset are making? The best ones?

Re: Uber CEO Wants to Shift More Engineering Jobs to India, Sparking Internal Debate

#22

Post by thekingofh » Thu, Jul 02, 2020, 2:30 PM UTC

xwdv wrote: post #12

Why would you hire an $80k Indian when you could easily hire an $80k American from somewhere with lower costs of living than Silicon Valley.

Because hiring an American requires you to treat them like a human being.

Re: Uber CEO Wants to Shift More Engineering Jobs to India, Sparking Internal Debate

#23

Post by kburman » Thu, Jul 02, 2020, 2:30 PM UTC

bberenberg wrote: post #10

ixvvqktiwl wrote: post #4

I used to think this was a bad thing, but these days I'm not so sure. Assuming you can get the same (or similar) talent in India instead of the US, doesn't it make sense to do your development in a place where your money goes farther? The capitalist in me sees this as a win: more value for shareholders, and a big life improvement for Indians. Can someone explain to me why it's a bad thing? I understand it might be ba…

"Assuming you can get the same (or similar) talent in India instead of the US" I am not aware of anyone who has succeeded at this in practice. Do you know anyone?

Correct me if I'm wrong that interview process for US and India is same?

Re: Uber CEO Wants to Shift More Engineering Jobs to India, Sparking Internal Debate

#24

Post by luspr » Thu, Jul 02, 2020, 2:30 PM UTC

Avalaxy wrote: post #3

atonse wrote: post #2

It's hard to ignore the siren song as a business person of comparing your 300k a year engineers to a senior engineer that costs $80k in India (regardless of the potential hidden costs of cultural and time zone differences). This gap should probably narrow as more remote work becomes normal, and more people move out of the Valley and can actually live decently on 150k, rather than 300k.

I think the cost of an engineer is way less than 80K in India. Here in the Netherlands a senior SE would be $80K. I see no reason to go to India instead of western Europe then.

I am in Germany (where software engineers are ridiculously undervalued) and would consider 80k an underwhelming mid-level salary. According to levels.fyi, salary in the netherlands is quite a bit better.

Re: Uber CEO Wants to Shift More Engineering Jobs to India, Sparking Internal Debate

#25

Post by ixvvqktiwl » Thu, Jul 02, 2020, 2:30 PM UTC

bberenberg wrote: post #10

ixvvqktiwl wrote: post #4

I used to think this was a bad thing, but these days I'm not so sure. Assuming you can get the same (or similar) talent in India instead of the US, doesn't it make sense to do your development in a place where your money goes farther? The capitalist in me sees this as a win: more value for shareholders, and a big life improvement for Indians. Can someone explain to me why it's a bad thing? I understand it might be ba…

"Assuming you can get the same (or similar) talent in India instead of the US" I am not aware of anyone who has succeeded at this in practice. Do you know anyone?

I don't know, that's why I'm asking. I have worked at a startup that used a firm in Ukraine which actually did really great work, however. It was perhaps more expensive than India, but still much cheaper than the US.

Re: Uber CEO Wants to Shift More Engineering Jobs to India, Sparking Internal Debate

#26

Post by hawk_ » Thu, Jul 02, 2020, 2:31 PM UTC

Avalaxy wrote: post #3

atonse wrote: post #2

It's hard to ignore the siren song as a business person of comparing your 300k a year engineers to a senior engineer that costs $80k in India (regardless of the potential hidden costs of cultural and time zone differences). This gap should probably narrow as more remote work becomes normal, and more people move out of the Valley and can actually live decently on 150k, rather than 300k.

I think the cost of an engineer is way less than 80K in India. Here in the Netherlands a senior SE would be $80K. I see no reason to go to India instead of western Europe then.

I don't think the kind of engineers that command 300k in valley are to be had in Amsterdam for 80k. In India that's possible.

Re: Uber CEO Wants to Shift More Engineering Jobs to India, Sparking Internal Debate

#27

Post by OGWhales » Thu, Jul 02, 2020, 2:31 PM UTC

ixvvqktiwl wrote: post #4

I used to think this was a bad thing, but these days I'm not so sure. Assuming you can get the same (or similar) talent in India instead of the US, doesn't it make sense to do your development in a place where your money goes farther? The capitalist in me sees this as a win: more value for shareholders, and a big life improvement for Indians. Can someone explain to me why it's a bad thing? I understand it might be ba…

> Assuming you can get the same (or similar) talent in India instead of the US In my experience, this assumption is not true and is the main downside.

The other is time zones and remote work in general being difficult, but I’m generally in favor of remote work and think as more people do it it will become more efficient.

Re: Uber CEO Wants to Shift More Engineering Jobs to India, Sparking Internal Debate

#28

Post by taylorlapeyre » Thu, Jul 02, 2020, 2:31 PM UTC

atonse wrote: post #2

It's hard to ignore the siren song as a business person of comparing your 300k a year engineers to a senior engineer that costs $80k in India (regardless of the potential hidden costs of cultural and time zone differences). This gap should probably narrow as more remote work becomes normal, and more people move out of the Valley and can actually live decently on 150k, rather than 300k.

You can live decently in the valley on a lot less than 300k. Speaking from experience, even 90k is perfectly comfortable.

Based on the salaries of my friends in SF, $150k is a very reasonable salary that allows a fantastic lifestyle.

Re: Uber CEO Wants to Shift More Engineering Jobs to India, Sparking Internal Debate

#29

Post by bitL » Thu, Jul 02, 2020, 2:31 PM UTC

ixvvqktiwl wrote: post #4

I used to think this was a bad thing, but these days I'm not so sure. Assuming you can get the same (or similar) talent in India instead of the US, doesn't it make sense to do your development in a place where your money goes farther? The capitalist in me sees this as a win: more value for shareholders, and a big life improvement for Indians. Can someone explain to me why it's a bad thing? I understand it might be ba…

Race to the bottom. No rewards for excellence, why bother studying/working hard when all you get is 80k? That's basically a life-time mortgage if you want to own a house.

Re: Uber CEO Wants to Shift More Engineering Jobs to India, Sparking Internal Debate

#30

Post by frandroid » Thu, Jul 02, 2020, 2:32 PM UTC

LeifCarrotson wrote: post #18

atonse wrote: post #2

It's hard to ignore the siren song as a business person of comparing your 300k a year engineers to a senior engineer that costs $80k in India (regardless of the potential hidden costs of cultural and time zone differences). This gap should probably narrow as more remote work becomes normal, and more people move out of the Valley and can actually live decently on 150k, rather than 300k.

Why should those engineers be paid $150k if they're generating more than $300k of value? For that matter, why should an Indian engineer be paid $80k if they're generating $300k of value minus whatever hidden costs you want to assign (surely not $220k)?

The value generated is an interesting number when the company is hemorrhaging money...