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California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

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Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#581
post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That happens because there many Indian states have separate quotas in govt jobs/education for OBC (Other Backward Class)so a even if you are a Muslim and your caste is considered lower class, you can apply.

Are some castes designated as “Backward” ? The term implies facing the wrong way

Yes, it is facing the wrong way but it is a tad complicated.

You see, eons ago, caste in Indian society was not right, it was your job (warrior = Kshatriya, scholar = bramhin, trader = baniya, labourer = shudra).

The first three called themselves upper class and the last one was the lower class.

Among the first three, the first one think that they're upper than the other two. The second one thinks that they're upper than the third.

But this was never hereditary. if you were born to a Bramhin (basically any person who had the brains to be a scholar) and if you didn't have the knack of being a 'scholar' you could become a warrior if you had the skills, or a trader, if you had those skills. If you had no such skills then you were the labourer.

But what happened is, centuries after this tradition started, it was made hereditary. So only sons of Bramhins can be scholars, only sons of Kshatriyas can be warriors, only sons of Baniyas can be traders and all Shudras were forever shudras.

The architect scholar and almost superman historical Dr Ambedkar was a Mahar aka Dalit aka Shudra. This guy graduated at the top of LSE, has written extensively on India and almost all of his writings were 100% spot on (his thoughts about why it was good that Pakistan formed for Indian Army's balance or what'll happen when Hindu nationalism will rise etc)

But he was treated as shit just because he was born a Mahar.

Now the tragical thing is that Mahars were warriors in Shivaji Maharaj's time (he was a Deccan King who was kinda democratic and not cruel like Mughals. Even actual Gods are below him in my state, people, including atheists like me worship him, not in temples obviously. It is like you can insult Gods and it'd be fine but if you insult him then you are done)

During his reign, Mahars were fierce warriors and had their own regiment in his army. But his descendents weren't exactly great and in the 3rd generation king's army, only 'higher caste' khastriyas could be warriors and others were treated as literally shit. there has been documented evidence (thank God for the documentation) that at the end of the Peshwa rule, the lower class people had to attach a broom at their backside so that they'd sweep the land they walked on because they were considered 'filthy' (not physically). No lower class man or woman or child was allowed in upper class wells, temples. they were not allowed to have horses in their weddings etc. Some of these practices are still rampant in India where upper caste privileged people are blind. you can see quite a few in this thread who are either blind or racist.

basically this was just like slavery without higher caste people owning the lower caste people.

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#582

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are some castes designated as “Backward” ? The term implies facing the wrong way

Yes, it is facing the wrong way but it is a tad complicated. You see, eons ago, caste in Indian society was not right, it was your job (warrior = Kshatriya, scholar = bramhin, trader = baniya, labourer = shudra). The first three called themselves upper class and the last one was the lower class. Among the first three, the first one think that they're upper than the other two. The second one thinks that they're upper…

Thanks for the writeup, I appreciate it.

My knowledge of India is very basic. I have indian friends and coworkers and have never thought about this being part of their story.

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#583
post #563

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope this nonsense can stop and talent can be rewarded regardless of caste. > This was all very hush-hush, I know of it because I overheard them talking about it. Of course it is. In India, there are some ridiculuous rules related to caste discrimination. For example someone from "lower" caste can sue a person for libel and have him thrown in jail with no FIR. Caste based discrimination is wrong. But arrest-before-…

American with a question here. In the U.S. you can legally change your name. What would happen if a Dalit went to court and petitioned to get his named changed to Gupta or Sharma?

The weaker sections usually need the social support provided by their caste. They are therefore more likely to want to keep it.

It is easy to cosmetically change your caste, in schools if you are not "lower" caste you do not mention anything and you fall into "general category".

On the other hand you need to prove that you are "lower caste". As government benefits follow.

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#584

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who was born a lower caste hindu, I don't really mind the british caste system at all. Because the british caste system is fluid. If you are born to servant parents and study hard to become a doctor, you end up at the top of the caste system. Not in Hinduism. Even if you become a doctor, but were born a dalit(lowest caste), you will remain a dalit and so will your future generations. There is no escape fro…

> There is no escape from the inhuman hindu caste system. The Hindu caste system talks about spiritual evolution of the soul as it goes from body to body in each birth. You might be a lower-caste in this birth, but you might get upper-caste birth in a next life. And vice-versa. That's how you escape it.

People taking such myths seriously is the crux of the problem. After all, if you were born low because of your alleged past sins, why should you not suffer in this current life?

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#586

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lets put it this way , you guys had the privilege. AFAIK atleast 2 generations ahead with the reading and writing compared to other communites. Please dnt pick exceptions here. The community had a headstart privilege access to reading and writing. If you look at the data of professors here in US and the first generation of guys in US doing higher studies you know. So you have a community base here . Its the same with…

> AFAIK atleast 2 generations ahead with the reading and writing compared to other communites Can you explain then why Dr. Ambedkar asked for only 10 years of caste-based reservations and to be done with it after that? Did he not know of this statistic when he asked for the reservation to be scrapped after 10 years: https://www.deccanchronicle.com/opinion/columnists/290917/ti... ? We continued to have caste-based res…

> why Dr. Ambedkar asked for only 10 years of caste-based reservations and to be done with it after that?

That's a misconception. There are 4 types of reservation.

1. Political reservation.

2. Reservation in Education.

3. Reservation in (Public) Employment.

4. Reservation in promotion.

That 10 years thing Ambedkar talked is about Political reservation. He said every 10 years it should be REVIEWED to end it or not. The other two reservation in education and employment is a fundamental rights in constitution. So it'll go on till there's discrimination in the society. The last one is not a fundamental right, that's why recently Supreme court of India reject it to implement.

20% of reservation in education was given to SC/STs in 1954, who form the 22.5% of the population. Reservation in (public) employment for them started in 1982 with 22.5%. Reservation for OBCs started in 1992 with 27%, who form the 52% of the population. Indian states have their own ratio for reservation with the condition that total reservation percentage should not exceed 50%. Now notice that the public sector in India only provide 3.8% of the total employment. Private sector is free of any reservation. So much for 70 years of reservation.

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#587
post #515

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Commission_for_Backwa...

The use of the word "Backward" is racist and derogatory.

It's the official terminology: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Other_Backward_Class

It's not considered derogatory in India.

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#588

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> let's ask an Indian parent if they'd be comfortable having their child marry someone they think is of a "lower caste" than theirs I have found that one of the quickest ways to be sure that the answer you get for that question matches what you’d like is to open them up to the possibility you might not get married at all. If my parents ever cared about that, they sure don’t now, and they’re nowhere near desperate ;)

IMO Indian parents are some of most sly people to walk earth. They coerce, emotionally blackmail and are obsessive about controlling their child's lives be it professional, educational, romantic decisions. Sometimes I think the quote "Most parents would do anything for their child except let them be who they are" is specifically made for the Indian boomer generation.

> Indian boomer generation

Off topic but this is something that grinds my gears.

India didn't have a post WW2 baby boom, there are no Indian boomers. Etymology aside, Boomer is used to signal generational privilege which also doesn't apply to India.

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#589

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious what extreme left ideology looks like in India.

Unlike the USA, India was under the control of the left since independence. So people who call themselves left are the ones who want to preserve the status quo and go back to the good old times. The new progressive India that you see does not have a real right, because it is mostly still a poor country. Nevertheless it has moved closer to the free market, trying to cut down government interference if not for anything…

this post 1.conflates of economic ideology and political ideology. 2.conflates political left, political center.

Political left was unpopular with the previous centrist government and with this one. But this one is especially intolerant to dissent. Prominent Dalit scholars and activists have been arrested because they "promote enmity between caste groups". Because surely asking for rights for the historically marginalized is 'promoting enmity'. The grassroots left movements are one of the biggest threats to caste politics and current establishment. Unfortunately, it currently doesn't have wide enough traction to change government policies.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/politics-and-natio... https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/other-states/sudha-bh...

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#590

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can go to r/india to see that. That sub is peak irrational leftism. And people generalizing Brahmins and other upper castes as oppressors are not exactly right. For many of us who are Brahmin by caste but have a rural, agriculture etc.. background otherwise, we have not witnessed such extreme casteism. Disclaimer: Brahmin by caste / surname but my community is traditionally agriculturist.

Lets put it this way , you guys had the privilege. AFAIK atleast 2 generations ahead with the reading and writing compared to other communites. Please dnt pick exceptions here. The community had a headstart privilege access to reading and writing. If you look at the data of professors here in US and the first generation of guys in US doing higher studies you know. So you have a community base here . Its the same with…

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