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California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

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Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#571
post #563

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope this nonsense can stop and talent can be rewarded regardless of caste. > This was all very hush-hush, I know of it because I overheard them talking about it. Of course it is. In India, there are some ridiculuous rules related to caste discrimination. For example someone from "lower" caste can sue a person for libel and have him thrown in jail with no FIR. Caste based discrimination is wrong. But arrest-before-…

American with a question here. In the U.S. you can legally change your name. What would happen if a Dalit went to court and petitioned to get his named changed to Gupta or Sharma?

They don't need to go to court.

https://legaldesk.com/name-change/procedure-for-name-change-...

The problem is that you need an entire stack of documentation for different sets of paperwork, and that comes with your old name. The only way to get a change done safely in ways that will not show a name change is by getting the name right at birth.

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#572

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I said > The American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) says the benefits of circumcision outweigh the risks. You said > Not exactly. And then proceeded to write up why you believe they are wrong. I said > I agree there's some room for argument as to whether it should be recommended or not, but and > I'm sorry, but... they do. Literally and unambiguously. You replied, once again, indicating why you believe they are wrong.…

I said that they state it as a headline, and then walk it back in their actual paper . Yes, that's relevant - they literally did it so that pro-circumcision folks could tout the very headline you're touting, and they'd still have room to defend themselves from everyone calling them out for a headline they can't defend . If I print a headline that says "ALL DOGS ARE RED" followed by a text qualifying the words "all,"…

I disagree with your conclusion that they walked back what they said in the headline enough to say that what they said in the headline isn't what they said. Besides that, I concur with most of what you said (in our discussion, not the previous point comparing circumcision to FGM).

That being said, I think we're obviously talking past each other here, so I'll just agree we have different views on the subject.

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#573
post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm from the northern part of India. Well it actually hits you harder once you are better off. You could drive a BMW, live in a big house and have all the luxuries of being an upper class person, but hindus would still see you as an inferior lower caste. In terms of social hierarchy, a poor brahmin who flips burgers at a burger store is higher caste than a dalit doctor. Converting is the only way to get rid of your c…

So what would happen if, say, an Australian or Haitian converted to Hinduism? Or is that not possible?

Traditionally, you couldn't convert to Hinduism (Hinduism is literlly the set of religions followed by people in South Asia). In modern times, you can convert to Hinduism.

You would end up without a caste, but with higher or lower social status depending on your original country.

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#574

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm from the northern part of India. Well it actually hits you harder once you are better off. You could drive a BMW, live in a big house and have all the luxuries of being an upper class person, but hindus would still see you as an inferior lower caste. In terms of social hierarchy, a poor brahmin who flips burgers at a burger store is higher caste than a dalit doctor. Converting is the only way to get rid of your c…

What about abandoning religion altogether as an agnostic or atheist? Does that not count?

You can be an atheist Hindu. Caste and religion have nothing to do with belief in a god, more than one god, or zero gods.

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#575
post #568

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The scarf is an issue in the sense that it was a way for militant, political Islam groups to test the waters. Which has led in less than a generation to much more extreme ways to openly show support for radical Islam (including burkas or more commonly niqabs). It's an issue because a nation, a society must have a common bond, a common culture. It's not a giant supermarket or a hotel.

lol. Where do you get your information from? A headscarf and the next thing you know, "radical Islam"?? Whatever. This is just xenophobia with a polite package. Many muslims wear a headscarf around the world. Other religions do to: It was, until fairly recently, common in Europe as well for many folks (not sure if it was ever common in the Americas). This isn't showing support for "radical islam" any more than being…

I think your view of the world is very naive. You can't inject political Islam in the French secular-with-deep-Christian-roots culture for the same reason you can't inject San Francisco LGBT culture in Baghdad.

Peoples and nations have histories, cultures, roots. You can't just copy/paste people around and expect everyone to be happy. The world has never worked this way.

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#576
post #571
post #563

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American with a question here. In the U.S. you can legally change your name. What would happen if a Dalit went to court and petitioned to get his named changed to Gupta or Sharma?

They don't need to go to court. https://legaldesk.com/name-change/procedure-for-name-change-... The problem is that you need an entire stack of documentation for different sets of paperwork, and that comes with your old name. The only way to get a change done safely in ways that will not show a name change is by getting the name right at birth.

Would the entire stack be checked for a job in the private sector?

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#577
post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That happens because there many Indian states have separate quotas in govt jobs/education for OBC (Other Backward Class)so a even if you are a Muslim and your caste is considered lower class, you can apply.

Are some castes designated as “Backward” ? The term implies facing the wrong way

Good point, I dont know who came with that term but its in the Indian Constitution, one of the duties of the govt is to help people who are in the Backward class

The irony is that there are some upper caste people fighting to classify their class as backward because they have quotas in govt jobs/education.

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#578

If Indians are so willing to discriminate against eachother on the basis of their own caste, we should be entirely unsurprised when Indians managers and companies discriminate against non-Indians (ie. Americans and other Europeans) in their own countries - of which there are multiple recorded instances. We need to be incredibly careful with the volume of migrants that we are taking in to the West. Issues like FGM, se…

You broke the site guidelines badly with this. Please read https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and follow the rules from now on. Turning this thread— which started as a relatively nuanced discussion of a difficult and specific topic—into an immigration flamewar was vandalism. We ban accounts that use HN for ideological battle like that.

We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23698379.

Edit: it's clear from your comment history that you've been using HN primarily for ideological battle. That's not allowed, we ban accounts that do it, so I've banned this account. If anyone wants further explanation about exactly how and why moderate HN this way, I've written about it many times: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu....

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#579
post #568

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't really understand why a headscarf is controversial at all. I don't understand why burkas and niqabs are controversial either, so long as folks know they have a choice in the matter. Someone else wearing one doesn't really affect you. The bigger issue is that you see it as a problem, instead of just accepting folks. Seriously: How does someone else wearing a headscarf - or more - actually affect you beyond the…

The scarf is an issue in the sense that it was a way for militant, political Islam groups to test the waters. Which has led in less than a generation to much more extreme ways to openly show support for radical Islam (including burkas or more commonly niqabs). It's an issue because a nation, a society must have a common bond, a common culture. It's not a giant supermarket or a hotel.

Religious flamewar is not allowed on HN, so please don't do it here.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#580

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am sorry that you had to face it. > how hindu society openly supports and promotes it My 'high class' friends always bring up their caste even when it is not related at all. 'in Bramhins we don't do x'm 'In us Rajputs, we don't do x' They can easily say, 'I am a veg or I dont' drink or my family is xyz'. But no. their caste _has_ to come up. A friend of mine had asked one of her friends who used to do this: 'okay,…

Replace Bramhins with any other identifier (GenX, Californians, British) and you will understand why it happened. It's not about flaunting the caste, but a term to identify the group from other groups. From your own example it shows the groups had different people who approached things differently. Not every mention of caste is about caste discrimination.

Yeah, but those who are 'proud' of their caste are the upper caste ones.

After centuries of cast discrimination, do you think that lower caste people will be 'proud' of their caste? No. they were brainwashed into thinking that they're subhuman, that they are not worthy of it.

Dr Ambedkar was a LSE scholar and he was treated as crap. he was a distinguished scholar, not just any other who was treated as crap because he was a Dalit.

Here is why your equation to GenX and California/British is a false equivalence:

GenX didn't treat GenW like shit for a century

California/British: it is about being proud of _where_ you live. I am proud of India, I was born here and I'll die here. I am sure that all Indians, irrespective of their gender or caste or religion are proud to associate themselves to India.

> Not every mention of caste is about caste discrimination.

It is. How else do you explain that only Bramhins and Rajputs do it? I didn't see any Mahar or Jain or Parsi say "in us Parsis we do x" or "in us Jains we do x" or "in us Mahars we do x"

Mahars were fierce warriors from Shivaji Maharaj's times, they defeated the Peshwas in Koregaon Bhima in 1818.

Only them upper caste folks flaunt it, just like the 'south Bombay' folks can't shut up about where they live

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