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Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial

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Re: Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial

#191

Post by Frost1x »

baddox wrote: post #178
Frost1x wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who says you're trying to be clever? Perhaps you're just busy and have other things to consider? I know I got wrapped up with a few project deadlines for a few weeks and didn't even have time continue exploring shows before canceling. I'd completely forgotten I even had the service. I guess I wasn't being clever enough. It appears more to me like opt-out recurring subscription is actually the model trying to be cleve…

Being too busy to cancel a subscription is a problem that would apply equally to normal subscriptions that start charging you immediately. The only alternative to that would be no recurring automatic payments at all, which is to say, no subscriptions at all. There’s nothing unique about a free trial period in that situation.

That's certainly not the only alternative.

Another alternative is to allow an opt-in subscription service with a free trial up front that doesn't automatically setup a recurring subscription you have to remove. A lot of services use this model, successfully.

Re: Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial

#192

Post by baddox »

Frost1x wrote: post #191
baddox wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being too busy to cancel a subscription is a problem that would apply equally to normal subscriptions that start charging you immediately. The only alternative to that would be no recurring automatic payments at all, which is to say, no subscriptions at all. There’s nothing unique about a free trial period in that situation.

That's certainly not the only alternative. Another alternative is to allow an opt-in subscription service with a free trial up front that doesn't automatically setup a recurring subscription you have to remove. A lot of services use this model, successfully.

Of course that is an option. I just don't think it's the only acceptable option, and I think what Apple does is perfectly acceptable and makes a lot of sense to me. Apple doesn't want its customers to play the game of agreeing to pay for something and then being surprised 7 days later when they are billed because they forgot to cancel.

Re: Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial

#193

Post by zepto »

wtetzner wrote: post #160
csunbird wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What? I am in love with Apple's way of handling subscriptions. I know that whenever I want, I can cancel it, no strings attached. If the app does not deliver what it claims with the subscription, I can trust Apple to dispute it. For example, there are a couple of apps that offer subscription and amazing deals out of in-app purchases, but I simply refuse to subscribe that kind of applications, because there are a lot…

> What? I am in love with Apple's way of handling subscriptions. I know that whenever I want, I can cancel it, no strings attached. Sure, and that's great. But why can't subscriptions be opt-in after a free trial, instead of opt-out? They can still send an email with a "Subscribe" button instead of a "Cancel" button. I would argue that's much more user-friendly.

It would be, but Apple’s way is also way more user friendly than almost anyone else’s.

Also, the opt-in vs opt-out could be configurable.

Re: Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial

#194

Post by boudin »

kemayo wrote: post #9

Apple's approach isn't as bad as this title makes it sound. Mostly because they're aggressive communicators about subscription billing -- they send emails well in advance of any subscription renewal, telling you when you'll be billed, how much for, and giving you a link to cancel the subscription. Makes me feel this isn't them hoping you'll just forget and be billed. In fact, I'd suspect this is intended as a user-fr…

This is the contrary of user friendly. This is not a free trial, it's a subscription with a first month (or whatever period) offered disguised as a free trial.

Re: Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial

#195

Post by freeone3000 »

grandmczeb wrote: post #189
freeone3000 wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Compliance is pretty good here in Quebec - nearly no one offers a free trial, and those that do don't auto-renew.

Isn't MindGeek one of the Montreal "tech giants"? Their entire business model is free trials and hoping people don't cancel on auto-renew.

But not in Montreal! They only do it where it's legal! Laws absolutely work.

Re: Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial

#196

Post by user5994461 »

grandmczeb wrote: post #189
freeone3000 wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Compliance is pretty good here in Quebec - nearly no one offers a free trial, and those that do don't auto-renew.

Isn't MindGeek one of the Montreal "tech giants"? Their entire business model is free trials and hoping people don't cancel on auto-renew.

I thought their main revenues were ads and cams?

Re: Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial

#197

Post by user5994461 »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #99
radley wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple is forcing a yoga app to do opt-out billing instead of opt-in. That's anti-user-friendly.

After watching my mother confusedly agree to $7/week billing in an app she downloaded to play with her cat, I'm not convinced Apple is in the business of helping users make optimal billing decisions with clarity. The least the App Store could do is give notifications (not just email) for monthly billing and notifications for "You are now paying $7/week and will be charged " (Click to go to a screen that will let you…

Can you cancel the billing as soon as you notice?

More importantly, can you get a refund? assuming your mother was tricked and didn't understand she was being charged and for what (this voids the contract in some jurisdictions).

Re: Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial

#198

Post by gamblor956 »

thoraway1010 wrote: post #122
black_puppydog wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

* consistently user hostile

Except it is very user friendly. Try to cancel your newspaper subscription - you have to call in and jump through hoops. Try to cancel your cable or internet, you didn't realize the rate you got was a "promo" rate that required a two year contract? I guarantee that if apple used the approaches others use, subscription revenue would be a LOT higher. They send you an email saying, here's what will be renewing soon, cli…

Try to cancel your newspaper subscription - you have to call in and jump through hoops.

I can do that online with a few clicks. (I do not subscribe to the NYT or WSJ). This is the same with most newspapers that are not the NYT or WSJ.

Try to cancel your cable or internet, you didn't realize the rate you got was a "promo" rate that required a two year contract?

I can do that with a simple call. My rate was not a promo that required a two year contract. I know this because they said so in big letters on the contract, which they're legally required to do in most states...

I guarantee that if apple used the approaches others use, subscription revenue would be a LOT higher.

TIL that if Apple didn't force trial periods to become auto-billed, revenue would somehow be higher. Instead of the more obvious result, which is that revenue is higher because people are being auto-billed after they forget to cancel. That is the business model of quite a few scams, and it's disappointing but not surprising that the Cooks-era Apple has embraced this business model.

Re: Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial

#199

Post by gamblor956 »

zepto wrote: post #193
wtetzner wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What? I am in love with Apple's way of handling subscriptions. I know that whenever I want, I can cancel it, no strings attached. Sure, and that's great. But why can't subscriptions be opt-in after a free trial, instead of opt-out? They can still send an email with a "Subscribe" button instead of a "Cancel" button. I would argue that's much more user-friendly.

It would be, but Apple’s way is also way more user friendly than almost anyone else’s. Also, the opt-in vs opt-out could be configurable.

Opt-out is by definition not more user friendly than a default opt-in process. It is in fact quite user-hostile and is used by a number of scam companies.

Re: Apple forcing app developers to implement auto-billing after free trial

#200

Post by zwily »

gamblor956 wrote: post #198
thoraway1010 wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except it is very user friendly. Try to cancel your newspaper subscription - you have to call in and jump through hoops. Try to cancel your cable or internet, you didn't realize the rate you got was a "promo" rate that required a two year contract? I guarantee that if apple used the approaches others use, subscription revenue would be a LOT higher. They send you an email saying, here's what will be renewing soon, cli…

Try to cancel your newspaper subscription - you have to call in and jump through hoops. I can do that online with a few clicks. (I do not subscribe to the NYT or WSJ). This is the same with most newspapers that are not the NYT or WSJ. Try to cancel your cable or internet, you didn't realize the rate you got was a "promo" rate that required a two year contract? I can do that with a simple call. My rate was not a promo…

I will (and have) pay more for an in-app Apple subscription just because of how easy it is to manage. I don’t think requiring a call is ever “simple”. Some people just prefer different things.
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