Magic hat leaves behind a transformed craft beer industry in Vermont • Hacker News Board

Re: Magic hat leaves behind a transformed craft beer industry in Vermont

#101

Post by monadic2 » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 8:44 PM UTC

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #61

polygotdomain wrote: post #15

As a craft beer lover, I'm really at odds with what to think about where the scene is today. There are so many breweries out there that are brewing some really great beer and coming up with some interesting styles. In many places there's a recapturing of what I'd call "beer as place" with beirgartens, brew-pubs, and breweries themselves having a more open and inviting experience to hang out and drink beer. It's tasty…

I'm really getting tired of the IPA fad. I loved IPAs when they were a niche product and you could sample most of them in a reasonable time span. Now they're 90% of the shelf space and other deserving varieties are hard to find. Most of the newcomers are poorly executed hacks that follow the simplistic formula: IPA == bitter hops, therefore let's overload on hops. I won't drink any IPA that wasn't around 10 years ago…

On the contrary I’d rather characterize it as IPA = very hoppy (you might even say overhopped) and therefore bitter.

Re: Magic hat leaves behind a transformed craft beer industry in Vermont

#102

Post by monadic2 » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 8:45 PM UTC

Linell wrote: post #81

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm really getting tired of the IPA fad. I loved IPAs when they were a niche product and you could sample most of them in a reasonable time span. Now they're 90% of the shelf space and other deserving varieties are hard to find. Most of the newcomers are poorly executed hacks that follow the simplistic formula: IPA == bitter hops, therefore let's overload on hops. I won't drink any IPA that wasn't around 10 years ago…

Completely agree. A good IPA can be great, but I feel like they've become almost synonymous with craft beer in general. I've heard people order "the hoppiest beer you've got" because it's gotten to the point where hops == good_beer and it just rubs me the wrong way.

I just like hoppy beer. I don’t have much time or inclination to acquire the correct taste.

Re: Magic hat leaves behind a transformed craft beer industry in Vermont

#103

Post by deadmik3 » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 8:47 PM UTC

cbm-vic-20 wrote: post #64

x87678r wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> hoppy IPAs I feel like that is pretty much all craft beer in the US is. I just wish we could get some good European style lagers that are ubiquitous in Europe but don't exist in the US for some reason.

"New England" IPAs aren't overly hopped, have more of a citrus character, and are not as astringent as classic IPAs. I don't like super-hopped beers, but I like NEIPAs. But they're definitely "trendy" at the moment. New England is much more heavily influenced by Ireland and the UK, and I think that's why we don't get many good examples of continental styles around here. I also suspect that a lot of people who move fr…

> "New England" IPAs aren't overly hopped

NEIPAs are by definition excessively hopped, it's just mostly (if not all) dry hops that impart the aromas you described instead of bitterness that's associated with classic IPAs.

Re: Magic hat leaves behind a transformed craft beer industry in Vermont

#104

Post by WorldMaker » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 8:50 PM UTC

polygotdomain wrote: post #15

As a craft beer lover, I'm really at odds with what to think about where the scene is today. There are so many breweries out there that are brewing some really great beer and coming up with some interesting styles. In many places there's a recapturing of what I'd call "beer as place" with beirgartens, brew-pubs, and breweries themselves having a more open and inviting experience to hang out and drink beer. It's tasty…

> The market is SUPER trendy, and breweries have the choice of either jumping on the bandwagon of the style-du-jour or being left by the wayside. Because there are so many breweries and they are so young, the overall quality is just okay with maybe one beer being notable and the rest being slightly sub par. Then you have this issue of investment firms and bigger conglomerates buying up successful microbrews and sucking the life out of them.

If there's hope, and it's hard to see sometimes, it's that most of the trends are at most regional. It's more rare than not that one of these trends jumps coasts, for instance. Many of these trends seem to be truly localized, or at least move in waves. (Anecdotally, by the time my West Coast friends were talking about hazy IPAs/New England IPAs, the trend had already come and gone in Kentucky.) From the level of "everybody in my city is drinking the same thing" perspective it feels the same, but from a high level it mostly means that no big corporation is themselves dominating the trends, almost all of them look to be following the trends, lagging them quite a bit, and/or entirely missing them. Goose Island, to follow your example, is no longer seen as an innovator even if folks don't know the why is that they are a brand arm of A-B InBev (the international conglomerate owners of Budweiser, etc), and no longer "local" despite how much they pretend to be.

The last nationally distributed beer I can recall trending as a fad is the one mentioned in this article, Magic Hat #9, and as the article itself points out, it is possible to take comfort that in building that success model Magic Hat more accidentally burnt national distribution bridges behind them than pave the way for more conglomerates to follow (or even the shell of themselves owned by a conglomerate to continue to succeed at that level), all the while paving behind them communities more likely build locally, trend regionally at best.

Re: Magic hat leaves behind a transformed craft beer industry in Vermont

#105

Post by 0xffff2 » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 8:51 PM UTC

astura wrote: post #63

chrisseaton wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the kind of craziness I see when I travel to the US https://www.taptrail.com/world-record-for-most-beer-taps/ I really struggle to believe they keep 366 beers in the best condition possible. And I don't get why it's a goal in the first place. I don't think anyone is making a meaningful choice between 366 beers and I bet they often get a disappointing one when they select something that nobody else has picked…

Well, that's a bar, not a brewery, and the topic here is breweries, not bars. If a bar has the sort of foot traffic/clientele/supply chain to support 366 different beers on tap then good for them, some do, it's not an easy operation to run. They also usually buy mini-kegs for quick turnover. If they are serving garbage quality beer that's been sitting for months then they probably wouldn't be in business. The place I…

The original comment didn't say anything about breweries.

I worked for a pub for a while that did beer and wine only with 20 taps. We definitely had the occasionally stinker that sat around for way too long (if it sat around too long, it would start getting poured for the staff and regulars on the house), and we had our usual suspects that would pop almost every day. By and large though, it was rare for any given keg to last over 4-5 days.

40 is a lot more than 20, but we were a relatively small bar that didn't even open on Sunday.

Re: Magic hat leaves behind a transformed craft beer industry in Vermont

#106

Post by linuxftw » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 8:52 PM UTC

pessimizer wrote: post #97

linuxftw wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I guess I agree with this in a way, in that what most people are looking for are water substitutes that will give you a low-level buzz. This is not really what I meant. I mean to say, for instance, I prefer Sam Adams over 90/100 microbrews I've tried. Name the top 6 non-economy beers in the supermarket, I enjoy most of them more than 75/100 microbrews. Taste-wise, I think most microbrews are a bad product, even if…

Then I probably just disagree. Those macro-microbrews are overcarbonated and thin to my taste. I'd rather have a watery rice lager (i.e. whatever's cheapest) if I'm going in that direction. TBH, though, preferring the top 6 macro-micros to 75/100 microbrews is praising with faint damnation. 1/4 of microbrews being better than all non-economy macro-micros is a good hit percentage in my book.

> 1/4 of microbrews being better than all non-economy macro-micros is a good hit percentage in my book.

Not precisely what I meant. I meant, pick the top 6 (probably in terms of gross sales), not my favorite 6. Also, I don't mean to say that all microbrews are bad, but the majority of them are, and the ones that are good are no better or only slightly better than the macro-microwbrews. My top 3 favorite beers are micros (or IMO, really more of a regional, has supermarket distribution).

Re: Magic hat leaves behind a transformed craft beer industry in Vermont

#107

Post by bsder » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 9:06 PM UTC

baron_harkonnen wrote: post #93

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm really getting tired of the IPA fad. I loved IPAs when they were a niche product and you could sample most of them in a reasonable time span. Now they're 90% of the shelf space and other deserving varieties are hard to find. Most of the newcomers are poorly executed hacks that follow the simplistic formula: IPA == bitter hops, therefore let's overload on hops. I won't drink any IPA that wasn't around 10 years ago…

I remember the last time IPAs where the major trend (where most of those 10+ year old IPAs come from). Honestly I feel this round of Hazy/NE IPAs is far less bitter than what was happening back then. Much more floral notes in IPAs and the focus seems to be much more on mouth feel. It's funny to see IPAs dominate again, I remember when the last fad ended because hops became scarce and that gave way to the trend of abs…

> I'd much rather have a bad IPA than a bad sour.

That's why IPA dominates. You can "fix" a bad IPA. You can't fix a bad stout or lager.

Re: Magic hat leaves behind a transformed craft beer industry in Vermont

#108

Post by Qworg » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 9:20 PM UTC

AnotherGoodName wrote: post #79

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm really getting tired of the IPA fad. I loved IPAs when they were a niche product and you could sample most of them in a reasonable time span. Now they're 90% of the shelf space and other deserving varieties are hard to find. Most of the newcomers are poorly executed hacks that follow the simplistic formula: IPA == bitter hops, therefore let's overload on hops. I won't drink any IPA that wasn't around 10 years ago…

As someone that just wants a refreshing but quality lager there's nothing for me in this current wave. It's all group think. IPAs and Imperial Stouts everywhere. To the extent that you will find entire categories of beer on beer rating sites with nothing above a 4/5 in that category due to the groupthink that says more flavor = higher ratings. Refreshing, crisp and other such metrics don't count right now due to the…

A good number of the breweries in Seattle are turning out excellent lagers, pilsners, and sours.

Re: Magic hat leaves behind a transformed craft beer industry in Vermont

#109

Post by steveklabnik » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 9:20 PM UTC

itronitron wrote: post #52

polygotdomain wrote: post #15

As a craft beer lover, I'm really at odds with what to think about where the scene is today. There are so many breweries out there that are brewing some really great beer and coming up with some interesting styles. In many places there's a recapturing of what I'd call "beer as place" with beirgartens, brew-pubs, and breweries themselves having a more open and inviting experience to hang out and drink beer. It's tasty…

If you're feeling down on the US craft beer scene just visit Europe (after Covid runs it's course) and you may realize that US craft beer is quite strong by comparison.

I went to MBCC in Copenhagen last year. Was going to go this year but... we'll see. One thing that made it interesting was that seemingly half of the brewries were American, which was really nice for us. We were able to focus on the stuff that the locals weren't as interested in, and vice versa.

Anyway, had a ton of great conversations with Europeans about this. We were sad that it's really tough to get Mikkeller around here, and they were like "I cannot believe you say that while you live near Jester King."

Re: Magic hat leaves behind a transformed craft beer industry in Vermont

#110

Post by amyjess » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 9:28 PM UTC

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #61

polygotdomain wrote: post #15

As a craft beer lover, I'm really at odds with what to think about where the scene is today. There are so many breweries out there that are brewing some really great beer and coming up with some interesting styles. In many places there's a recapturing of what I'd call "beer as place" with beirgartens, brew-pubs, and breweries themselves having a more open and inviting experience to hang out and drink beer. It's tasty…

I'm really getting tired of the IPA fad. I loved IPAs when they were a niche product and you could sample most of them in a reasonable time span. Now they're 90% of the shelf space and other deserving varieties are hard to find. Most of the newcomers are poorly executed hacks that follow the simplistic formula: IPA == bitter hops, therefore let's overload on hops. I won't drink any IPA that wasn't around 10 years ago…

You might want to look at hazy IPAs a.k.a. New England-style IPAs. They've completely transformed the market, and they're the first hoppy beers I've ever really liked.

They're not bitter at all, and instead they focus on extracting the fruit juice flavors of the hops. A lot of them taste like alcoholic orange juice mixed with other kinds of juice. I've developed a huge taste for them, and they're the perfect antidote for the storm of bitter nasty IPAs that have been flooding the market until a few years ago.

If you're looking for something from brewery that sells their products nationwide to sample, Lagunitas Hazy Wonder is really good. If you're in Texas, also look into anything from Tupps or Manhattan Project.