Oppose the Earn IT Act • Hacker News Board

Re: Oppose the Earn IT Act

#141

Post by Taek » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 7:15 PM UTC

gspr wrote: post #123

cavanasm wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Major this. Also plug for CGP Grey's "politics in the animal kingdom" video series that explains exactly why we have that 'lesser of two evils' problem, and how exactly RCV and Alternative vote systems resolve that problem, in a very simple, understandable way. https://www.cgpgrey.com/politics-in-the-animal-kingdom

What I, as a European from a country that elects proportionally (which isn't perfect, but anyway), cannot understand is the blank stare Americans give me when people point out that the two-party system and FPTP are the things that need to be fixed for the US to have a democratic future. It's like so many of them cannot wrap their heads around something being fundamentally broken . The same goes for Canadians and UKia…

We've literally been brainwashed from birth to believe that we have, by far, the best government that's ever been built. It's a major part of the school system.

Cognitive dissonance around the idea that there is room for improvement is inevitable.

Re: Oppose the Earn IT Act

#142

Post by ajzinsbwbs » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 7:16 PM UTC

ipnon wrote: post #101

ajzinsbwbs wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That scares me. If that entrapment-at-scale is legal, it could be deployed to throw huge numbers of people in jail for buying drugs or supporting terrorism.

Note that the AI is used to automate the work of the law enforcement agents, not the work of the judges and juries. The AI collects evidence that prosecutors use to build cases against defendants. The defendants still have the right to public trial in a court of law in front of a human judge and human jury. edit: It seems there is a misunderstanding of what the AI does. It simulates human traffickers in text or video…

Here are some examples of the types of prosecutions I’m worried about.

High schooler sold drugs to undercover cop who pretended to be his girlfriend: https://www.thisamericanlife.org/457/what-i-did-for-love/act...

Legal study on failures of the entrapment defense in post-9/11 terrorism cases: https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/law-and-social-inqui...

Most people will make a plea deal when faced with prosecution, so there’s never an adversarial process in front of a judge and jury.

Re: Oppose the Earn IT Act

#143

Post by wizzwizz4 » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 7:16 PM UTC

gspr wrote: post #123

cavanasm wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Major this. Also plug for CGP Grey's "politics in the animal kingdom" video series that explains exactly why we have that 'lesser of two evils' problem, and how exactly RCV and Alternative vote systems resolve that problem, in a very simple, understandable way. https://www.cgpgrey.com/politics-in-the-animal-kingdom

What I, as a European from a country that elects proportionally (which isn't perfect, but anyway), cannot understand is the blank stare Americans give me when people point out that the two-party system and FPTP are the things that need to be fixed for the US to have a democratic future. It's like so many of them cannot wrap their heads around something being fundamentally broken . The same goes for Canadians and UKia…

To be fair, the UK did have the "Alternative Vote Referendum" where we got the second-worst voting system proposed as an alternative to the worst voting system (FPTP). That might explain why nobody thinks "alternative voting systems" are any good; they just think of instant run-off.

Re: Oppose the Earn IT Act

#144

Post by dllthomas » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 7:18 PM UTC

lukifer wrote: post #97

thayne wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As a european, I don't see any party that actually have american people's interest in mind. As an American, I don't see any party that has my interests in mind. Elections always seem to be having to choose the lesser of two evils.

Obligatory plug for electoral reform. Lesser evils aren't inevitable; they're a product of a bad voting system. https://www.fairvote.org/rcv https://www.fairvote.org/alternatives Maine has converted to RCV already and it's stood up in court; 49 to go.

> Lesser evils aren't inevitable; they're a product of a bad voting system.

It's made much worse by the bad voting system, but it's perfectly possible that I simply disagree with enough of my fellow citizens that any compromise we can reach will be some "lesser evil".

Re: Oppose the Earn IT Act

#145

Post by tzs » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 7:21 PM UTC

manuelabeledo wrote: post #24

chejazi wrote: post #14

Obviously this sucks as a proposal but... how do we stop the child porn?

This sounds like the start of a false dichotomy.

Not necessarily.

These bad bills keep coming up in an effort to address serious real problems, like child porn. People are going to keep proposing bills to address these problems until something passes.

By just concentrating on shooting down bad bill after bad bill without devoting any effort to getting good bills proposed the next bill after each defeated bad bill will be another bill from the same general set of people. Maybe the new one will address some of the issues in the prior ones but the chances are good that it won't address all of them.

Just telling everyone else what is wrong with their approach to solving a problem instead of also offering up your own better solutions tends to not work well in the long run.

Re: Oppose the Earn IT Act

#146

Post by gspr » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 7:22 PM UTC

Taek wrote: post #141

gspr wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I, as a European from a country that elects proportionally (which isn't perfect, but anyway), cannot understand is the blank stare Americans give me when people point out that the two-party system and FPTP are the things that need to be fixed for the US to have a democratic future. It's like so many of them cannot wrap their heads around something being fundamentally broken . The same goes for Canadians and UKia…

We've literally been brainwashed from birth to believe that we have, by far, the best government that's ever been built. It's a major part of the school system. Cognitive dissonance around the idea that there is room for improvement is inevitable.

I'm surprised that this attitude survives along side the attitude of "the government sucks at everything and it should be made as small as possible" that seems to be so pervasive in the US.

And I'm surprised that I get the same blank stares from Americans that have lived for a decade in Europe. It's like they've never contemplated any other way of electing. Of course it's not true about everyone. I'm generalizing a lot here, but it still surprises me.

Re: Oppose the Earn IT Act

#147

Post by google234123 » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 7:22 PM UTC

Warrant-proof encryption is not compatible with a society that accepts the principle that we are accountable to the law. There is nothing sacred about your cell phone.

Re: Oppose the Earn IT Act

#148

Post by Press2forEN » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 7:22 PM UTC

lukifer wrote: post #97

thayne wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As a european, I don't see any party that actually have american people's interest in mind. As an American, I don't see any party that has my interests in mind. Elections always seem to be having to choose the lesser of two evils.

Obligatory plug for electoral reform. Lesser evils aren't inevitable; they're a product of a bad voting system. https://www.fairvote.org/rcv https://www.fairvote.org/alternatives Maine has converted to RCV already and it's stood up in court; 49 to go.

Let's say the US had 5 parties and all 5 supported 5 variations of the EARN IT act, what then?

Re: Oppose the Earn IT Act

#149

Post by gspr » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 7:23 PM UTC

wizzwizz4 wrote: post #143

gspr wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I, as a European from a country that elects proportionally (which isn't perfect, but anyway), cannot understand is the blank stare Americans give me when people point out that the two-party system and FPTP are the things that need to be fixed for the US to have a democratic future. It's like so many of them cannot wrap their heads around something being fundamentally broken . The same goes for Canadians and UKia…

To be fair, the UK did have the "Alternative Vote Referendum" where we got the second-worst voting system proposed as an alternative to the worst voting system (FPTP). That might explain why nobody thinks "alternative voting systems" are any good; they just think of instant run-off.

Interesting! Was this done on purpose to discredit the voices for change, or was it just incompetence or a compromise or something like that?

Re: Oppose the Earn IT Act

#150

Post by darkarmani » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 7:25 PM UTC

ipnon wrote: post #118

darkarmani wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, create some dog-and-ponies AI start-up for this in the districts of the most influential lawmakers, with stated job counts (for AI-mechanical turk work that hires lots of people). Tie the "correct" solution to their real political motivations and it will get done in a heartbeat. It has to be something they can sell to their base though.

We don't need to be cynical. We can demand that our government guarantees our rights to safety and privacy because they are not mutually exclusive.

Well, it's being realistic. The politicians aren't choosing the best choice for us, they are choosing the choice that looks like the best choice for the hordes weighed against the interests of their powerful lobbyists.

If privacy (as partially defined as crypto) looked important to the hordes of people and/or the lobbyists, we wouldn't have anything to worry about. Think about the children is a much easier platform to get elected for though.