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Magic hat leaves behind a transformed craft beer industry in Vermont

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Re: Magic hat leaves behind a transformed craft beer industry in Vermont

#51

Post by astura »

chrisseaton wrote: post #29

I think an issue the American craft beer scene has is quantity over quality. Some American beer places I go into have like forty different beers on tap , and are really proud of it. I find it hard to believe that forty beers are being kept fresh and live and maintained properly. Are they replacing them every few days or are the less popular ones in a range that wide sitting there for weeks? I feel like they're ending…

We must live in different parts of the country, I don't know a single craft brewery that brews 40 different beers at once, not even the huge multimillion "stretching the definition of craft" brewery around here. It's typically 4-10 at once around here. I don't think even Treehouse has that many and they have a ton (and limit everyone to 2 pours each because of the huge amount of traffic they get)

Re: Magic hat leaves behind a transformed craft beer industry in Vermont

#52

Post by itronitron »

polygotdomain wrote: post #15

As a craft beer lover, I'm really at odds with what to think about where the scene is today. There are so many breweries out there that are brewing some really great beer and coming up with some interesting styles. In many places there's a recapturing of what I'd call "beer as place" with beirgartens, brew-pubs, and breweries themselves having a more open and inviting experience to hang out and drink beer. It's tasty…

If you're feeling down on the US craft beer scene just visit Europe (after Covid runs it's course) and you may realize that US craft beer is quite strong by comparison.

Re: Magic hat leaves behind a transformed craft beer industry in Vermont

#53

Post by monocasa »

x87678r wrote: post #47
andygcook wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vermont has phenomenal beers if you like hoppy IPAs. Besides being a very fun city, most bars in Burlington, VT carry beers from the local breweries around there: Lawson's (Sip of Sunshine), the Alchemist (Heady Topper), Fourteenth Star (Tribute), Zero Gravity, Hill Farmstead, and more. If you ever end up in MA, Tree House is worth checking out and has 4 of the top 20 beers on Untappd right now. Vitamin Sea in Weymou…

> hoppy IPAs I feel like that is pretty much all craft beer in the US is. I just wish we could get some good European style lagers that are ubiquitous in Europe but don't exist in the US for some reason.

They do in a town with a decent craft scene. It's just the new places don't always have their cleanliness protocols on lock after scaling up from their garage and a super hoppy IPA can hide a lot of off notes. Run far away fom a new place that opens with only six IPAs and no other styles; they're hiding some grossness.

In Denver off the top of my head, Hogshead specializes in cask, Prost brews most of their beers according to Reinheitsgebot, Crooked Stave specializes in wild yeast sours. There's a bunch of others too.

Re: Magic hat leaves behind a transformed craft beer industry in Vermont

#54

Post by blahbhthrow3748 »

zeveb wrote: post #45
nkozyra wrote: post #5

I think while Magic Hat holds a place in the craft beer renaissance story, much of the regional beer from that era was unremarkable. The idea that it was better than the macro beers stemmed largely from the experimentation and derivation from American adjunct lagers. As the smaller, more rabid craft beer industry grew from the late 90s, bigger regional brewers like MH never really evolved. Some of that might have bee…

> I think while Magic Hat holds a place in the craft beer renaissance story, much of the regional beer from that era was unremarkable. The idea that it was better than the macro beers stemmed largely from the experimentation and derivation from American adjunct lagers. Strongly disagree; I believe that the late 90s to early 2010s were the high point of the American brewing renascence, before it all got completely car…

You're already behind the times, everywhere I look now lambic beers are the next big thing. Which is great because I love a sour. They seem to have largely supplanted APAs as the trend to chase.

Re: Magic hat leaves behind a transformed craft beer industry in Vermont

#55

Post by coldpie »

zeveb wrote: post #45
nkozyra wrote: post #5

I think while Magic Hat holds a place in the craft beer renaissance story, much of the regional beer from that era was unremarkable. The idea that it was better than the macro beers stemmed largely from the experimentation and derivation from American adjunct lagers. As the smaller, more rabid craft beer industry grew from the late 90s, bigger regional brewers like MH never really evolved. Some of that might have bee…

> I think while Magic Hat holds a place in the craft beer renaissance story, much of the regional beer from that era was unremarkable. The idea that it was better than the macro beers stemmed largely from the experimentation and derivation from American adjunct lagers. Strongly disagree; I believe that the late 90s to early 2010s were the high point of the American brewing renascence, before it all got completely car…

> Back in the 90s there were numerous breweries just trying to make good English-style beer; nowadays it is all American Pale Ales, so bitter as to be very nearly undrinkable.

Nah. There is way too much of that, yes, but there is tons of other stuff, too. Between all the *PAs on the shelf you can find plenty of tasty beers, probably many of them brewed in your city or at least your state. And if you find a good one, you can go hang out at their taproom and probably say hi to the brewer. You could never do that in the 90s or 2000s :)

Re: Magic hat leaves behind a transformed craft beer industry in Vermont

#56

Post by Obi_Juan_Kenobi »

dvtrn wrote: post #31
chrisseaton wrote: post #29

I think an issue the American craft beer scene has is quantity over quality. Some American beer places I go into have like forty different beers on tap , and are really proud of it. I find it hard to believe that forty beers are being kept fresh and live and maintained properly. Are they replacing them every few days or are the less popular ones in a range that wide sitting there for weeks? I feel like they're ending…

I find it hard to believe that forty beers are being kept fresh and live and maintained properly Asked honesty and earnestly, why?

PC seems very confused about how niche cask ale is (even in the UK), but the point does still stand to a degree.

Some styles do have quite short shelf lives, namely the ubiquitously popular IPAs. Even with miniscule DO (dissolved oxygen) levels - breweries measure in PPB - you have a few weeks until staling can be reliably discriminated. Distribution takes a couple of those good weeks right off the top in many cases, making stale beer a real issue for people that like hoppy styles.

Much of the trendiness is beer now is due to limited distribution. You can't get Pliny on the East Coast, and you can't get Alchemist or Treehouse on the West. You have to have them specially shipped, leading to one of the worst dick-measuring contests in history with the bottle-trade scene. Those breweries forgo huge sales because they insist on controlling distribution such that quality won't suffer.

It is absolutely a real issue.

Also, any homebrewer can tell you this first hand. Not just for hops, but delicate malt flavors are often at their peak about two weeks from brewing, just enough time to fully ferment and then mature cold in a keg for a few days. Good taprooms can get you this experience as well, but beer trends are decidedly against delicate malt character, though crispy bois (aka pilsners) are having a moment.

Re: Magic hat leaves behind a transformed craft beer industry in Vermont

#57

Post by [deleted] »

astura wrote: post #51
chrisseaton wrote: post #29

I think an issue the American craft beer scene has is quantity over quality. Some American beer places I go into have like forty different beers on tap , and are really proud of it. I find it hard to believe that forty beers are being kept fresh and live and maintained properly. Are they replacing them every few days or are the less popular ones in a range that wide sitting there for weeks? I feel like they're ending…

We must live in different parts of the country, I don't know a single craft brewery that brews 40 different beers at once, not even the huge multimillion "stretching the definition of craft" brewery around here. It's typically 4-10 at once around here. I don't think even Treehouse has that many and they have a ton (and limit everyone to 2 pours each because of the huge amount of traffic they get)

[deleted]

Re: Magic hat leaves behind a transformed craft beer industry in Vermont

#58

Post by chrisseaton »

astura wrote: post #51
chrisseaton wrote: post #29

I think an issue the American craft beer scene has is quantity over quality. Some American beer places I go into have like forty different beers on tap , and are really proud of it. I find it hard to believe that forty beers are being kept fresh and live and maintained properly. Are they replacing them every few days or are the less popular ones in a range that wide sitting there for weeks? I feel like they're ending…

We must live in different parts of the country, I don't know a single craft brewery that brews 40 different beers at once, not even the huge multimillion "stretching the definition of craft" brewery around here. It's typically 4-10 at once around here. I don't think even Treehouse has that many and they have a ton (and limit everyone to 2 pours each because of the huge amount of traffic they get)

This is the kind of craziness I see when I travel to the US

https://www.taptrail.com/world-record-for-most-beer-taps/

I really struggle to believe they keep 366 beers in the best condition possible. And I don't get why it's a goal in the first place. I don't think anyone is making a meaningful choice between 366 beers and I bet they often get a disappointing one when they select something that nobody else has picked in the last week.

Re: Magic hat leaves behind a transformed craft beer industry in Vermont

#59

Post by Obi_Juan_Kenobi »

monocasa wrote: post #44
chrisseaton wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fresh beer ideally lasts about five days. Are these places getting through a whole cask of all their forty beers every five days? Doesn't seem likely to me. I'm guessing that they're using shortcuts like putting it into kegs rather than casks, Pasteurising rather than keeping it fresh, and using carbonation instead of pumping it naturally, in order to support their huuuuuuge ranges. If they focused on a smaller numbe…

Are you from the UK? Cask is considered a sub genre in the US, and not something to shoot for in the general case here. Most consumers here don't want a cask beer, but instead a carbonated one from a keg. If you serve them a cask beer they think it's flat. There's a craft brewery near me that specializes in cask (shout out to Hogshead in Denver if you've never been), but they're embracing the niche aspect of that rat…

Cask is a sub-genre in the UK as well, limping along with a hyper-nationalist identity. Dude is feigning ignorance.

Re: Magic hat leaves behind a transformed craft beer industry in Vermont

#60

Post by coldpie »

itronitron wrote: post #52
polygotdomain wrote: post #15

As a craft beer lover, I'm really at odds with what to think about where the scene is today. There are so many breweries out there that are brewing some really great beer and coming up with some interesting styles. In many places there's a recapturing of what I'd call "beer as place" with beirgartens, brew-pubs, and breweries themselves having a more open and inviting experience to hang out and drink beer. It's tasty…

If you're feeling down on the US craft beer scene just visit Europe (after Covid runs it's course) and you may realize that US craft beer is quite strong by comparison.

I started drinking in the mid-2000s. This was around when the American craft brew scene was really taking over the nation, but the jokes all my European colleagues told were about how American beer is piss-water. Imagine my surprise when I went to Europe, this fabled land of "real beer", and found that they had at most one or two taps at the bar, and asked if I wanted "dark" or "light". No brand names, no styles, no variety. Just a perfectly adequate, ho-hum ale, pint after pint. This is better than our huge, burgeoning, incredibly active and creative craft beer scene?

It seems like the "American piss-water" jokes have finally subsided today, but for a good decade there, I was real defensive about the American beer scene :)

[*] Note: This is a friendly, lighthearted anecdote about my personal experience 15 years ago. Please take it in the spirit it is intended. I miss you, Europe.

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