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Magic hat leaves behind a transformed craft beer industry in Vermont

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Re: Magic hat leaves behind a transformed craft beer industry in Vermont

#41

Post by ilamont »

waterfowl wrote: post #38
ilamont wrote: post #23

A lot of really good entrepreneurial food companies have come out of Vermont, Ben & Jerry's being the most famous. Like MH, it was acquired by a multinational company (Unilever) although it still strives to retain its independence and Vermont character. We live in an adjoining state, and get cheese, chocolate, beer, and syrup from Vermont producers. There's even roasted coffee beans from a producer up there that my w…

minor nitpick - B&J was purchased by Unilever which is similar but less reviled online than Nestle.

You're right ... I always mix those two up.

Re: Magic hat leaves behind a transformed craft beer industry in Vermont

#42

Post by chrisseaton »

dvtrn wrote: post #39
chrisseaton wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, but that's what I mean. Instead of a couple of carefully produced natural cask beers, they have forty mass produced Pasteurised, carbonated kegs. Quantity over quality.

Question in search of some clarity: When you say “they” Are you referring to a specific beer made by a specific brewery when you refer to these pasteurized beverages? At least as it pertains to the article, not all of Magic Hat’s products involve this brewing process, unless I’ve misunderstood you?

Craft beer bars I go into in the US in general. I'm sure there's tons of exceptions. But in general the beer scene in the US seem to prioritise having a great many taps, over having a smaller number of higher quality beers, and I think quality suffers because of that, through things like old beer, use of kegs and carbonisation.

Re: Magic hat leaves behind a transformed craft beer industry in Vermont

#43

Post by stephencanon »

ErikAugust wrote: post #25
tarentel wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lawson's started brewing at Two Roads in CT and got a distributor in CT and it's been a lot easier to find at least here in NJ within the past year. I also recently got Heady and Focal down here but I am not sure where the distributor got it from or if it was a one off thing. You probably already know about them but Hill Farmstead is my favorite in VT. I used to go there a few times a year when I lived closer by.

I still find Hill Farmstead nearly impossible to find, even being in Vermont. They make great beer, but also show that exclusivity adds a lot to the mystique.

For HF, take an afternoon off sometime and go to the brewery to pick up some growlers. This was more fun pre-COVID, but at least the line is shorter now.

Re: Magic hat leaves behind a transformed craft beer industry in Vermont

#44

Post by monocasa »

chrisseaton wrote: post #32
dvtrn wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it hard to believe that forty beers are being kept fresh and live and maintained properly Asked honesty and earnestly, why?

Fresh beer ideally lasts about five days. Are these places getting through a whole cask of all their forty beers every five days? Doesn't seem likely to me. I'm guessing that they're using shortcuts like putting it into kegs rather than casks, Pasteurising rather than keeping it fresh, and using carbonation instead of pumping it naturally, in order to support their huuuuuuge ranges. If they focused on a smaller numbe…

Are you from the UK? Cask is considered a sub genre in the US, and not something to shoot for in the general case here.

Most consumers here don't want a cask beer, but instead a carbonated one from a keg. If you serve them a cask beer they think it's flat. There's a craft brewery near me that specializes in cask (shout out to Hogshead in Denver if you've never been), but they're embracing the niche aspect of that rather than attempting to be "what beer should be". It's not a case of cheaping out.

Re: Magic hat leaves behind a transformed craft beer industry in Vermont

#45

Post by zeveb »

nkozyra wrote: post #5

I think while Magic Hat holds a place in the craft beer renaissance story, much of the regional beer from that era was unremarkable. The idea that it was better than the macro beers stemmed largely from the experimentation and derivation from American adjunct lagers. As the smaller, more rabid craft beer industry grew from the late 90s, bigger regional brewers like MH never really evolved. Some of that might have bee…

> I think while Magic Hat holds a place in the craft beer renaissance story, much of the regional beer from that era was unremarkable. The idea that it was better than the macro beers stemmed largely from the experimentation and derivation from American adjunct lagers.

Strongly disagree; I believe that the late 90s to early 2010s were the high point of the American brewing renascence, before it all got completely carried away, IMNSHO in hipsterism and bitterness-chasing, but perhaps more charitably just in neophilia. Back in the 90s there were numerous breweries just trying to make good English-style beer; nowadays it is all American Pale Ales, so bitter as to be very nearly undrinkable.

It feels that there's not nearly the room in the craft beer scene for high-quality, traditional beer that there was not all that long ago.

Re: Magic hat leaves behind a transformed craft beer industry in Vermont

#46

Post by chrisseaton »

monocasa wrote: post #44
chrisseaton wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fresh beer ideally lasts about five days. Are these places getting through a whole cask of all their forty beers every five days? Doesn't seem likely to me. I'm guessing that they're using shortcuts like putting it into kegs rather than casks, Pasteurising rather than keeping it fresh, and using carbonation instead of pumping it naturally, in order to support their huuuuuuge ranges. If they focused on a smaller numbe…

Are you from the UK? Cask is considered a sub genre in the US, and not something to shoot for in the general case here. Most consumers here don't want a cask beer, but instead a carbonated one from a keg. If you serve them a cask beer they think it's flat. There's a craft brewery near me that specializes in cask (shout out to Hogshead in Denver if you've never been), but they're embracing the niche aspect of that rat…

Yeah. Oh right I thought 'craft' sort of implied 'cask' and the kegs were a cheap shortcut, but maybe the taste in the US is more for carbonated beers.

Re: Magic hat leaves behind a transformed craft beer industry in Vermont

#47

Post by x87678r »

andygcook wrote: post #33
ErikAugust wrote: post #17

Vermont today has much better beer than Magic Hat (even at its height). They tried a lot of different stuff, and most of it just wasn't very enjoyable. What Magic Hat did have was beautiful marketing and wider distribution. It has to be partially by choice, but The Alchemist and Lawson's make some of the best beer I have ever had, but they are both impossible to find outside of New England and a few parts of New York…

Vermont has phenomenal beers if you like hoppy IPAs. Besides being a very fun city, most bars in Burlington, VT carry beers from the local breweries around there: Lawson's (Sip of Sunshine), the Alchemist (Heady Topper), Fourteenth Star (Tribute), Zero Gravity, Hill Farmstead, and more. If you ever end up in MA, Tree House is worth checking out and has 4 of the top 20 beers on Untappd right now. Vitamin Sea in Weymou…

> hoppy IPAs

I feel like that is pretty much all craft beer in the US is.

I just wish we could get some good European style lagers that are ubiquitous in Europe but don't exist in the US for some reason.

Re: Magic hat leaves behind a transformed craft beer industry in Vermont

#48

Post by dvtrn »

chrisseaton wrote: post #42
dvtrn wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Question in search of some clarity: When you say “they” Are you referring to a specific beer made by a specific brewery when you refer to these pasteurized beverages? At least as it pertains to the article, not all of Magic Hat’s products involve this brewing process, unless I’ve misunderstood you?

Craft beer bars I go into in the US in general. I'm sure there's tons of exceptions. But in general the beer scene in the US seem to prioritise having a great many taps, over having a smaller number of higher quality beers, and I think quality suffers because of that, through things like old beer, use of kegs and carbonisation.

Are you sure your personal taste and preferences (which are fine to have, everyone has different tolerances for different flavors and experiences with beverages) aren’t getting projected onto an entire industry here?

Of course it’s entirely possible that local craft bars could probably clean their lines a bit better, I’ve definitely experienced this when ordering a beer made by one of the breweries I worked for and immediately Noticing “nope that’s not how this is supposed to taste”, we offered to clean their lines for free because it directly affected perception of our product if people think our beer is skunky due to poor cleaning practices, and wouldn’t you know it the next pour tasted much better.

Many craft breweries do this, as well, sometimes employees of bars just take one beer off a line and out on a totally different style of beer without a thorough flush (often times just out of ignorance not knowing better) and you Will definitely taste the difference. So maybe this is a quality control issue with the service delivery and not the way beers are brewed and stored?

Re: Magic hat leaves behind a transformed craft beer industry in Vermont

#49

Post by monocasa »

chrisseaton wrote: post #46
monocasa wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you from the UK? Cask is considered a sub genre in the US, and not something to shoot for in the general case here. Most consumers here don't want a cask beer, but instead a carbonated one from a keg. If you serve them a cask beer they think it's flat. There's a craft brewery near me that specializes in cask (shout out to Hogshead in Denver if you've never been), but they're embracing the niche aspect of that rat…

Yeah. Oh right I thought 'craft' sort of implied 'cask' and the kegs were a cheap shortcut, but maybe the taste in the US is more for carbonated beers.

I edited the above, but if you ever find yourself in Denver, check out Hogshead. Really great brewery focusing on cask beers. Haven't had a bad beer there.

Re: Magic hat leaves behind a transformed craft beer industry in Vermont

#50

Post by polygotdomain »

chrisseaton wrote: post #29

I think an issue the American craft beer scene has is quantity over quality. Some American beer places I go into have like forty different beers on tap , and are really proud of it. I find it hard to believe that forty beers are being kept fresh and live and maintained properly. Are they replacing them every few days or are the less popular ones in a range that wide sitting there for weeks? I feel like they're ending…

While the number of breweries has increased, but public consuming them hasn't really changed that much. Granted your casual beer drinker will go for a craft or micro offering now rather than your Bud or Miller Lite like they may have a decade or two ago, but that doesn't mean their tastes have really changed significantly. At the end of the day, most people can't tell the difference and most places don't care enough to properly care for the beer itself or the equipment. One of my biggest pet peeves are places that don't actually clean their lines often enough. It's something I can clearly taste and takes all of the enjoyment out of what should be a good beer.

In regards to number of beers on tap, not every beer is going to by in your standard size keg which points to some of your concerns. Chances are a number of the craft beers are in smaller kegs so they stay fresh, but more importantly take up less space. Refrigeration is key at establishments like that and ideally the kegs would be in their own fridge rather than just in the walk-in like many restaurants do it. Worst is the kegerators at the bar where the untapped gets are at room temperature. Not only is that not good for the beer, it's also horrible if you're one of the first pours from that keg.

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