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Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#311

Post by DonaldFisk »

VBprogrammer wrote: post #188
Macha wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Irish is the first official language. Which outside of a few details like bilingual signs or legislation, is more aspirational than reality. On the legislation point, while it is translated into Irish and legally speaking the Irish version takes precedence, it's usually drafted in English and translated. This has caused issues such as embarrassment for the government where they had to update the proposed constituti…

> Which outside of a few details like bilingual signs or legislation, is more aspirational than reality. You could say the same for Wales. Not sure if they are included or excluded traditionally. On a slight tangent, it makes me giggle to see the Gaelic versions of towns on the outskirts of Glasgow. If Ireland is aspirational, Scotland is comically optimistic. The average Glaswegian knows more Spanish or French than…

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scottish_Gaelic#Modern_era

"The locality with the largest absolute number is Glasgow with 5,878 such persons, who make up over 10% of all of Scotland's Gaelic speakers." Of course, they all speak English and many if not most nearby town names are of non-Gaelic origin.

But throughout the Highlands and Western Isles, Gaelic toponyms do dominate, with no English equivalent, e.g. here, not far from Glasgow: https://www.bing.com/maps?osid=a58ce425-2098-47f0-b9e0-8bc90...

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#312

Post by dragonwriter »

FabHK wrote: post #272
throwaway1997 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our biggest advantage is that we are a trilingual society with a deep understanding of both western and Chinese culture. Although there are many people in the mainland who have studied abroad, the ability to understand the needs of Chinese and Western business is definitely not as pervasive. But I agree that HK isn't anywhere as near valuable to China, especially in terms of finance.

> biggest advantage Plus the rule of law, I'd say. Well, historically.

That's only dubiously a net advantage, even historically, of HK for the PRC. It's instrumental in some of the business advantages, but it also contributes to it's big political liability for a national regime for which the law is a convenience, not a limitation.

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#313

Post by CWuestefeld »

GordonS wrote: post #273
CWuestefeld wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife grew up in the PRC. Before Communism they were a very prominent family (her great uncle was a literary pioneer; his brother, her grandpa, a judge prominent enough that he was mentioned in the movie Lust Caution ; and their brother a successful MD), and as a result were "black" under the Communist regime. With the exception of my wife's grandmother, every member of her extended family spent time in either pris…

This is of course terrible, and I'm sorry your family went through any of it. I though think it's worth mentioning that the China of today is absolutely not the China of the 50's. I've personally spent quite a bit of time in China, and it's never seemed particularly "communist" - the middle class has long since been established and continues to grow, and capatalism is very much thriving. On a personal note, I've alwa…

There's a lot of truth in your response. My own personal feeling, from my visits to the country from the 90s to the present, is that in some ways the day-to-day life on the streets of Shanghai seem more free than America. It seems like the government has been mostly laissez-faire toward the individual people, so long as those people leave the oligarchy alone.

The thing is, it's very much a pendulum. The Cultural Revolution, when my wife was growing up, was one of the worst times. The couple decades starting in the 90s was relatively quite good. The thing is, since Xi took control the pendulum has been swinging back in the other direction. That's most obvious back in Hong Kong, but is also evident within the mainland, as reported by family members and we can see ourselves through online interactions (e.g., on multiple occasions my wife's WeChat comments have been censored).

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#314

Post by Veen »

dragonwriter wrote: post #304
philwelch wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Racism” is not a very good term for privileging non-white immigrants from former colonies over white European immigrants.

Racism is a perfectly fine term for weighting East Asian race less negatively than other non-white races in a function with multiple other factors besides race, resulting in certain East Asian immigrants being favored over white European immigrants. Though, as explained already in GP, I think nationalism is the more relevant factor here, whether or not racism (binary or differential) is also involved (which at some l…

The UK is not weighting Asians higher than other non-white races. It’s favouring people from the Commonwealth and others to whom we have historical commitments above countries where no such ties exist.

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#315

Post by computerfriend »

woodpanel wrote: post #77
sct202 wrote: post #25

It's interesting to see how proactive a lot of developed countries are being with getting ready to welcome refugees from Hong Kong, especially compared to the Syrian crisis a few years ago.

compared to the Syrian crisis a few years ago Please enlighten me. As a German, I have yet to see even a statement of any German politician to do as the Brits do. Is there any non-english speaking country being "proactive"?

Taiwan has a dedicated office for processing Hong Kong refugees. They speak Mandarin there.

https://news.rthk.hk/rthk/en/component/k2/1535138-20200701.h...

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#316

Post by genoapol »

genoapol wrote: post #246
starfallg wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>if the end result is rising incomes for all, better life expectancy and an overall better quality of life does it matter that it came about through an authoritarian regime? And when this growth ends, what will happen? An authoritarian system is able to withstand challenges with the full power of the state behind it. People that dissent are crushed, and many times the people that dissent do so with the most honourabl…

>Just because China is able to catch-up some of the growth that it completely missed out on due to the turmoil of the Communist revolution and the turbulent 50s and 60s, doesn't validate this system one bit. Other countries were ahead of China, with more growth and sustainability, minus the cruelty. The most powerful countries in the world were literally coasting on stolen Chinese wealth for 100 years of so. When the…

>doesn't validate this system one bit. .

India springs to mind as a good 1:1 comparison candidate and it seems to be doing much worse than China in most economic metrics.

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#317

Post by computerfriend »

MattGaiser wrote: post #86
entropea wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I bet we'll see nearly no refugees from Hong Kong when data starts appearing in a few years.

Refugee is an official term with an official meaning. Anyone coming from Hong Kong doesn't fit that.

This is false. Simon Cheng was granted asylum today, for instance.

https://twitter.com/SimonCh15198572/status/12783360604063375...

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#318

Post by dragonwriter »

Veen wrote: post #314
dragonwriter wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Racism is a perfectly fine term for weighting East Asian race less negatively than other non-white races in a function with multiple other factors besides race, resulting in certain East Asian immigrants being favored over white European immigrants. Though, as explained already in GP, I think nationalism is the more relevant factor here, whether or not racism (binary or differential) is also involved (which at some l…

The UK is not weighting Asians higher than other non-white races. It’s favouring people from the Commonwealth and others to whom we have historical commitments above countries where no such ties exist.

> The UK is not weighting Asians higher than other non-white races.

I didn't say it was. I said that the upthread commenter’s use of “differential racism” to describe their explanation in which Britain was doing that was, contrary to the claim that it was redefining “racism”, a perfectly valid use of the term “racism”.

I've also said in every post in which I've argued that point that I think that what is actually happening involves nationalism in light of the HKs colonial history, not, or at least more decisively than, racism, differential or otherwise.

There two different issues here, one about whether a hypothetical scenario is within the usual definition of “racism” and one about whether than hypothetical is the best explanation of what is factually occurring.

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#320

Post by computerfriend »

vmception wrote: post #126
monkeypizza wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some real kickers in here: * Beijing will establish a new security office in Hong Kong, with its own law enforcement personnel - neither of which would come under the local authority's jurisdiction * This office can send some cases to be tried in mainland China - but Beijing has said it will only have that power over a "tiny number" of cases * Beijing will have power over how the law should be interpreted, not any Ho…

People give way too much weight to a handover promise with a completely different country, and not the wording of the Hong Kong constitution and the Chinese Constitution. Both allow for everything that has happened, which suggests restraint by both Hong Kong and Chinese authories. Hong Kong Basic Law (its constitution) allows for National Security to be controlled by Beijing. I can see the symbolism of 50 year autono…

This is not true. The basic law explicitly excludes this, because there is a provision for national security in article 23. Annex iii can contain national laws that are not covered by the basic law (e.g. foreign policy).
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