Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents • Hacker News Board

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#291

Post by skissane » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 5:55 PM UTC

GordonS wrote: post #278

skissane wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they still recognised ROC instead of PRC they could have returned it to ROC instead. Alternatively, UK could have made switching recognition from ROC to PRC conditional on a New Territories lease renewal.

That would never have happened for obvious political reasons (China). If it ever had happened, I don't think it would have ended well for the HK citizens...

The UK (and other Western countries) had a massive bargaining chip over PRC as long as they recognised ROC instead. They could have demanded a higher price for recognising PRC, and I think PRC wanted their recognition enough they would have paid. (And a better deal on HK could have been part of that price.) Instead, the West gave this bargaining chip away for cheap-some short-term alliance against the Soviets which the end of the Cold War made irrelevant, which probably did little or nothing to contribute to the Soviet Union’s fall, and which cost PRC very little since PRC and USSR were already on bad terms anyway. PRC played their hand very well, the West played very poorly.

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#292

Post by cm2187 » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 5:56 PM UTC

ksec wrote: post #112

nly wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surprising isn't it, given how much of a driving force EU immigration was in the Brexit debate.

It kind of depends, immigration wasn't a big part of it from talking with many business partners. Many just dont like the idea rules are being made in Brussels.

Or repay the italian debt.

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#293

Post by philwelch » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 5:56 PM UTC

mhh__ wrote: post #275

Veen wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wasn’t so much the fact of immigration, but the lack of control over immigration.

perceived lack of control.

There’s nothing “perceived” about it—the UK was forced to admit any “EU citizen” who wanted to come and immediately grant them permanent residency, which already represents a fundamental loss of control.

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#294

Post by philwelch » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 5:57 PM UTC

DanBC wrote: post #271

nailer wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. As anyone with an interest in politics in the UK will tell you, free movement literally ended yesterday.

They'd be wrong. A bill passed its 3rd reading in house of commons. It needs to get through the House of Lords. It still has some way before becoming law. https://www.parliament.uk/about/how/laws/passage-bill/common... And when the UK crashes out of EU with no deal we'll inevitably re-allow free movement of EU workers because we have no bargaining power.

> And when the UK crashes out of EU with no deal

It’s incredible how many times people have cried wolf about this.

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#295

Post by iguy » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 5:58 PM UTC

pm90 wrote: post #124

eggsnbacon1 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has and will be debated forever. Given the choice though, I think its much clearer that letting in wealthy educated people is a net benefit.

Your belief does not make it a reality. Studies have shown that all kinds of immigration greatly benefits host countries, and especially aging Western ones with declining populations.

This really isn't a one-dimensional question with an easy "studies have shown" answer. For a start, it would require a definition for what "benefits host countries" means -- benefits tax receipts? Proportion willing to volunteer for the army? Benefits eployers of low/high-wage labor? Number of companies founded? Strength of the literary tradition?

That said, the most obvious parallel here is the indians expelled from Uganda [1], who were essentially the merchant class of that country. And I believe have done very well in England.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expulsion_of_Asians_from_Ugand

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#296

Post by youeseh » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 5:58 PM UTC

99_00 wrote: post #198

I live in Vancouver. The pattern for many Hong Kong immigrants is to have the mother and children live in Canada while the father works in HK.The family doesn't declare the foreign income in Canada. So they enjoy the benefits of a low tax HK income. And they get all the nice things that go with living in high tax Canada while not contributing to it -free healthcare, subsided University, safe communities, clean enviro…

What do you think Canadians that work in the Middle East do? Report their incomes?

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#297

Post by entropea » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 5:59 PM UTC

derision wrote: post #120

entropea wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that they should have jail time, but life in prison after not actually harming anyone physically? That's authoritarian and exactly what I was replying to in OP's comment.

What if the car exploded, hurting people nearby? What if there was a police canine in the vehicle that wasn't see, or someone crouching on the other side of the car out of sight? Throwing a molotov cocktail into a vehicle, in my opinion, should be charged as attempted manslaughter.

Hypotheticals don't belong in criminal trials.

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#298

Post by dragonwriter » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 5:59 PM UTC

pinkfoot wrote: post #282

dragonwriter wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> China isn't going to restrict the movement of hundreds of thousands of foreigners legally living in HK. At least, they are less likely to do so than they are people who aren’t foreigners, although even them I wouldn’t want to bet my life on it. China ending the two-systems arrangement in Hong Kong despite the Joint Declaration is basically saying “As far as HK (and, implicitly, anything we consider Chinese territor…

Now you know how Iran feels :)

Well, not just Iran—the US does the same thing pretty blatantly a lot, and it's pretty much Israel’s only mode of operation. There's an argument that it's essentially all of international politics, masked by the fact that most countries, on all but the most existential issues, see the power vs interest calculus as favoring adhering to consensus international law and direct agreements.

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#299

Post by philwelch » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 6:00 PM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #289

tomp wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "differential racism" So basically the existing word "racism" didn't fit (because racist Brits would hate Asian HKers just as much as brown Syrians and black Africans) so you invented a new completely concept but conveniently attached the word "racism" to it for maximal emotional impact? Despicable.

Racism works fine for what is described, there is nothing about racism which requires it to be “my race good, all other races equally bad”. “Differential racism” is a perfectly good way of distinguishing a multitiered racial heirarchy from a binary one. Though I think nationalism may be at least as much of a factor as race-based differentiation. (That is, that nationalism in the context of colonial history is why HKe…

“Racism” is not a very good term for privileging non-white immigrants from former colonies over white European immigrants.

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#300

Post by baybal2 » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 6:00 PM UTC

albertsondev wrote: post #212

bamboozled wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I think you're saying that, people are brainwashed to believe in the party?

Not brainwashed, but socialized. In East Asian countries and China especially, collectivism and Confucianism are pervasive, with deep cultural roots. The CCP is, of course, supporting and reinforcing those ideals, but it's just as much simply taking advantage of the pre-existing culture. Just like how the US is strongly culturally capitalist and individualistic -- as we value bootstraps capitalism and the "American D…

> In East Asian countries and China especially, collectivism and Confucianism are pervasive, with deep cultural roots.

In East Asian countries and China especially, nobody gives a flying .... about collectivism and Confucianism, and cultural roots.

It's by far the most egoistic, conflict driven, cut throat society I've ever been.