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Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#271

Post by DanBC »

nailer wrote: post #252
grey-area wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They may be disappointed when they discover the rules aren't made in Brussels because the UK joined the EU, but because it's the UK's largest trading partner and the largest trade bloc in the world. Brexit will simply make their position worse.

No. As anyone with an interest in politics in the UK will tell you, free movement literally ended yesterday.

They'd be wrong.

A bill passed its 3rd reading in house of commons. It needs to get through the House of Lords. It still has some way before becoming law.

https://www.parliament.uk/about/how/laws/passage-bill/common...

And when the UK crashes out of EU with no deal we'll inevitably re-allow free movement of EU workers because we have no bargaining power.

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#272

Post by FabHK »

throwaway1997 wrote: post #106
chosenbreed37 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This level of brain drain, as in the other mass migration events away from HK, could trigger the government to loosen their grip. I've heard that HK is no longer as important to China as it was 20 years ago. HK's contribution to China's GDP has declined in relative terms as the rest of China has developed. With regards to the brain drain I get the impression that there are plenty of people from the mainland that co…

Our biggest advantage is that we are a trilingual society with a deep understanding of both western and Chinese culture. Although there are many people in the mainland who have studied abroad, the ability to understand the needs of Chinese and Western business is definitely not as pervasive. But I agree that HK isn't anywhere as near valuable to China, especially in terms of finance.

> biggest advantage

Plus the rule of law, I'd say. Well, historically.

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#273

Post by GordonS »

CWuestefeld wrote: post #233
TimTheTinker wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m really curious: what is your experience that you’re referring to?

My wife grew up in the PRC. Before Communism they were a very prominent family (her great uncle was a literary pioneer; his brother, her grandpa, a judge prominent enough that he was mentioned in the movie Lust Caution ; and their brother a successful MD), and as a result were "black" under the Communist regime. With the exception of my wife's grandmother, every member of her extended family spent time in either pris…

This is of course terrible, and I'm sorry your family went through any of it.

I though think it's worth mentioning that the China of today is absolutely not the China of the 50's.

I've personally spent quite a bit of time in China, and it's never seemed particularly "communist" - the middle class has long since been established and continues to grow, and capatalism is very much thriving. On a personal note, I've always really enjoyed my time in China.

I'm not saying it's a model of wonderdrous virtue either of course; there is a lot of corruption (hardly unique to China, mind), many people wouldn't even dream of openly criticising the CCP, there is little press freedom, and of course the Uigher (spelling?) camps are an abomination. Yet the overwhelming majority of the population have never had it better, and are happy with the way things are (of course, few will know everything about the way things are).

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#274

Post by FabHK »

TimTheTinker wrote: post #230
muro wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up in a communist country. Good riddance to them, only a shame that so few were prosecuted for ruining the lives of so many.

Who in their right mind downvotes this ^? If you do downvote, I'd really like to know why. Communism is manifestly a negative influence on mankind's well-being... don't know how anyone could rationally think otherwise (unless you grew up in a communist country and believe the propaganda).

This makes me wonder:

USSR : "The Gulag Archipelago" :: modern China : ?

Anyone got a suggestion for a well written modern book that exposes the sins of the CCP?

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#275

Post by mhh__ »

Veen wrote: post #160
nly wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surprising isn't it, given how much of a driving force EU immigration was in the Brexit debate.

It wasn’t so much the fact of immigration, but the lack of control over immigration.

perceived lack of control.

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#276

Post by mnm1 »

TimTheTinker wrote: post #92
mnm1 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Better than being ruled by communists, that's for damn sure. That was my experience, anyway.

I’m really curious: what is your experience that you’re referring to?

Eastern bloc country. Grandfather tortured for being a priest after his house got confiscated and family ran out of town. My other grandfather had a similar experience but got his house back eventually. Constant persecution. Fear of anyone who was not family because they could be spies for the state. Food rationing. 6 day workweek. Bribe doctors so you don't die on the operating table and everyone else too. Can't read in public. Tons of censorship. I was very young and my family was doing well, the communist equivalent of middle class. Others had it much worse. Being a child I was shielded from a lot but children are not stupid. Imagine having murderous hate for your president at seven, eight years old. Education was quite good though, but I missed most of that. Highly doubt China much different in many respects from my visit there.

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#277

Post by dragonwriter »

99_00 wrote: post #239
sterlind wrote: post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the dad stays an astronaut, he will get lost in space once China finishes engulfing HK. I don't think HKers are going to be as worried about reducing their tax rates as staying free right now..

The whole reason for getting Canadian citizenship is for the day that China engulfs HK and they want to leave. China isn't going to restrict the movement of hundreds of thousands of foreigners legally living in HK. 300,000 Canadians living in HK right now.

> China isn't going to restrict the movement of hundreds of thousands of foreigners legally living in HK.

At least, they are less likely to do so than they are people who aren’t foreigners, although even them I wouldn’t want to bet my life on it.

China ending the two-systems arrangement in Hong Kong despite the Joint Declaration is basically saying “As far as HK (and, implicitly, anything we consider Chinese territory) is concerned, we aren't concerned about what other countries think, or international law or agreements, only power.”

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#278

Post by GordonS »

skissane wrote: post #194
9nGQluzmnq3M wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The UK didn't have much of choice. Their lease on the New Territories (basically all of HK except Kowloon and the Island) expired in 1997, so that was going back to China regardless, and they concluded that HK was not viable without it.

If they still recognised ROC instead of PRC they could have returned it to ROC instead. Alternatively, UK could have made switching recognition from ROC to PRC conditional on a New Territories lease renewal.

That would never have happened for obvious political reasons (China). If it ever had happened, I don't think it would have ended well for the HK citizens...

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#279

Post by starfallg »

genoapol wrote: post #246
starfallg wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>if the end result is rising incomes for all, better life expectancy and an overall better quality of life does it matter that it came about through an authoritarian regime? And when this growth ends, what will happen? An authoritarian system is able to withstand challenges with the full power of the state behind it. People that dissent are crushed, and many times the people that dissent do so with the most honourabl…

>Just because China is able to catch-up some of the growth that it completely missed out on due to the turmoil of the Communist revolution and the turbulent 50s and 60s, doesn't validate this system one bit. Other countries were ahead of China, with more growth and sustainability, minus the cruelty. The most powerful countries in the world were literally coasting on stolen Chinese wealth for 100 years of so. When the…

That era ended long before the Communists took power. Which they did by allowing the KMT to deplete their resources by fighting the Japanese first. They contributed surprising little in the war effort.

Now, can we get back on the subject of how the CCP is treating dissidents (and neighbouring countries)?

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