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Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#251

Post by free_rms »

skissane wrote: post #245
free_rms wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're gonna go pro-colonialist might makes right, that's your prerogative, but then you're just gonna have to eat it on the fact that the PRC had a lot more might nearby.

I don’t see how handing HK over to ROC would have been “pro-colonialist”.

Presuming to control HKs fate after taking it in the freaking opium wars is.

Giving HK back to China is an act of decolonization. Putting them under Taiwan and loading up the island with US weapons would not be.

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#252

Post by nailer »

grey-area wrote: post #141
ksec wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It kind of depends, immigration wasn't a big part of it from talking with many business partners. Many just dont like the idea rules are being made in Brussels.

They may be disappointed when they discover the rules aren't made in Brussels because the UK joined the EU, but because it's the UK's largest trading partner and the largest trade bloc in the world. Brexit will simply make their position worse.

No. As anyone with an interest in politics in the UK will tell you, free movement literally ended yesterday.

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#253

Post by itskwanyall »

LatteLazy wrote: post #119

No, only to a tiny subset of HK residents on a very arbitrary basis, specifically excluding anyone under 23 (so most protestors) and any child (so most people who don't want to literally abandon their kids).

> very arbitrary basis

Arbitrary? This is the opposite of arbitrary, it's everyone who is eligible for BNO status (i.e. was alive during the handover) and their dependents.

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#254

Post by numakerg »

99_00 wrote: post #198

I live in Vancouver. The pattern for many Hong Kong immigrants is to have the mother and children live in Canada while the father works in HK.The family doesn't declare the foreign income in Canada. So they enjoy the benefits of a low tax HK income. And they get all the nice things that go with living in high tax Canada while not contributing to it -free healthcare, subsided University, safe communities, clean enviro…

Then shouldn't the government be closing this loophole and taxing whatever vehicle they use to transfer wealth?

I'd criticize an individual for evading taxes, but a "group" of people is just doing what people do.

EDIT: If you want to talk about the "functional" value of immigrants, then you need to get to the root purpose and bring in whoever is having the most kids.

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#255

Post by ryan_j_naughton »

dragonwriter wrote: post #197
ryan_j_naughton wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The British could have done what they did with Belize. Belize wanted independence but Guatemala claimed that it was actually a province/state of Guatemala. The British supported independence and left a battalion of troops in Belize, the British Forces Belize, in order to act as a deterrent to a Guatemalan invasion.[1][2] While China is obviously much more powerful than Guatemala, they still wouldn't have been able to…

> While China is obviously much more powerful than Guatemala, China isn't just more powerful than Guatemala, it's more powerful than the UK. > they still wouldn't have been able to invade given that it would have caused a nuclear war. If Deng Xiaoping really thought the UK would accept nuclear ese as the cost of keeping China out of HK, sure, that might have kept China out. But literally no one would believe that.

They haven't invaded Taiwan with the US providing an even less direct security guarantee.

The USA previously had a mutual defense treaty with Taiwan. That was replaced by the Taiwan Relations Act of 1979.

"The Taiwan Relations Act does not guarantee the USA will intervene militarily if the PRC attacks or invades Taiwan nor does it relinquish it, as its primary purpose is to ensure the US's Taiwan policy will not be changed unilaterally by the president and ensure any decision to defend Taiwan will be made with the consent of Congress. The act states that "the United States will make available to Taiwan such defense articles and defense services in such quantity as may be necessary to enable Taiwan to maintain a sufficient self-defense capabilities". However, the decision about the nature and quantity of defense services that America will provide to Taiwan is to be determined by the President and Congress. America's policy has been called "strategic ambiguity" and it is designed to dissuade Taiwan from a unilateral declaration of independence, and to dissuade the PRC from unilaterally unifying Taiwan with the PRC."[1]

If the US didn't have this agreement with Taiwan, I believe the PRC would have invaded long ago. Instead, they have been playing a long game of deeply entangling their economies and increasing their influence in the region with the hope of Taiwan following HK and joining the one country, two systems approach. I believe that is fundamentally dead now that the PRC has revealed one country, two systems to be a complete lie.

Thus, I hope Taiwan declares independence and has the backing the USA in such a manner that China won't consider invading.

Nonetheless, the point stands that China hasn't invaded Taiwan with a far less secure security guarantee than the one I proposed by the UK for HK.

No nuclear power has yet wanted to test whether or not a rival nuclear power is willing to follow through on their promise. Nuclear deterrence has been exceedingly effective. Furthermore, while China is more powerful than the UK, in 1997 the UK had a larger GDP and the EU was on the upswing.[2][3] That would have been sufficient counterweight to China then.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taiwan_Relations_Act#Military_...

[2] https://www.google.com/search?q=china+gdp+1997&oq=china+GDP+...

[3] https://www.google.com/search?q=UK+GDP+1997&oq=UK+GDP+1997&a...

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#256

Post by akamaka »

chosenbreed37 wrote: post #94
throwaway1997 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will disproportionately take away the more wealthy and better educated. The majority of HKers live in public housing, pay no tax and are unlikely to have the means to live in the UK since there will be no recourse to public funds. This level of brain drain, as in the other mass migration events away from HK, could trigger the government to loosen their grip.

> This level of brain drain, as in the other mass migration events away from HK, could trigger the government to loosen their grip. I've heard that HK is no longer as important to China as it was 20 years ago. HK's contribution to China's GDP has declined in relative terms as the rest of China has developed. With regards to the brain drain I get the impression that there are plenty of people from the mainland that co…

Sure, just as New York is not as central to the American economy as it was in the 19th and early 20th century. It would still be a very heavy cost to lose it. A few percentage points of GDP might seem small on paper, and won’t be the end of the country, but it’s not something to scoff at.

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#257

Post by tomp »

fatjokes wrote: post #145

I'm super curious to see how this will turn out for the UK. A lot of the comments here mention HK's relative high education, English proficiency and wealth. If those are true: the upside will be easier settlement into the UK, maybe increased entrepreneurship. The downsides are: driving up local housing prices, increased competition for jobs. If those are false, the UK may experience an influx of lower-wage labor and…

> The downsides are: driving up local housing prices, increased competition for jobs.

No, no.

Increasing housing prices are a long-standing policy in the UK (and many other Western countries, as evidenced by low credit rates and extra bonuses for mortgages) and a gift to many voters (whose personal wealth is tied to their homes), and would be a welcome boost in times of COVID.

If the UK was afraid of brain drain of London's financial elite (UK's big "export" is finance) because of Brexit just a year ago, vacuuming up HK's financial elite would be a welcome counterweight.

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#258

Post by throw1997throw »

TimTheTinker wrote: post #230
muro wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up in a communist country. Good riddance to them, only a shame that so few were prosecuted for ruining the lives of so many.

Who in their right mind downvotes this ^? If you do downvote, I'd really like to know why. Communism is manifestly a negative influence on mankind's well-being... don't know how anyone could rationally think otherwise (unless you grew up in a communist country and believe the propaganda).

> unless you grew up in a communist country

No, chances are the person who downvoted you is someone who never has actually lived in a communist country and likely did so from the comforts of an overpriced western coffee shop. They probably think they're an intellectual who wouldn't be first against the wall in such a situation.

Take the downvote with pride, since you're speaking truth to abuse.

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#259

Post by champagneben »

blocked_again wrote: post #113
tasogare wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s the reverse, the burden is definitive and ever growing. A large group of immigrants allow them to keep themselves in a cultural bubble, build a parallel economy (and society, actually), occupy some part of cities and setup political parties. Source: I’m French, and I quit my country in part for this reason.

So you emigrated to another country because people were immigrating to your country and immigration is bad? Is this sarcasm?

Seems to me that they immigrated to another country because of a specific type of cultural phenomenon that was happening in their country of origin resulting from immigration. Maybe the same type of phenomenon is not happening in their country of choice? Doesn't seem sarcastic at all.

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#260

Post by notahacker »

tomp wrote: post #248
koheripbal wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No - because these are RICH Asian migrants, not POOR North African and Syrian migrants. It's a combination of differential racism and elitism.

> "differential racism" So basically the existing word "racism" didn't fit (because racist Brits would hate Asian HKers just as much as brown Syrians and black Africans) so you invented a new completely concept but conveniently attached the word "racism" to it for maximal emotional impact? Despicable.

> because racist Brits would hate Asian HKers just as much as brown Syrians and black Africans

Even a racist as extreme and obsessed with whiteness specifically as Hitler deemed some nonwhite races worthy of respect, even as he plotted others' extermination. Clearly it is absurd to define 'racist' so narrowly that even the actual Nazis don't qualify

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