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Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

bbc.co.uk

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Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#211

Post by vertex-four »

derision wrote: post #209
vertex-four wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, so violence against trans folk is totally left-wing. There's never been anybody encouraging violence against trans folk as part of right-wing ideology. Got it. Many individual acts over time can be worse than a single instance of violence that affects many, you realise?

Yes, some of it is. Whether you want to believe it or not. One such instance is the GenderCritical subreddit which was recently banned: https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2020/06/29/reddit-bann-transphobi...

I am aware of TERFs, I currently live in a country where they recently managed to convince the Prime Minister to harass us in order to split the opposing party (which has multiple factions and where the primary reason they stay together is similar opinions on workers' rights) which had started gaining footing.

I also very much disbelieve that they constitute any of the left, given that the left largely won't talk to them or acknowledge the validity of their ideas, and they tend to wind up making deals with right-wing anti-feminist (even anti-cisgender-woman) organisations to push their agenda.

Calling yourself a "feminist" doesn't make you one, especially when you stomp on other women's hard-earned rights and privileges in order to pursue your goal of burying "men".

Find me a TERF who openly supports Black Lives Matter and spends a bunch of time advocating for women's rights other than the oppression of trans women, and I'll eat my hat.

EDIT: On the other hand, Black Lives Matter groups by and large support trans folk, at least in words. Black Lives Matter UK: "All forms of oppression are interrelated, you cannot be for Black lives if you do not emphatically support the cause for Black queer lives, Black trans lives [and] the lives of Black women." - and this demo: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jun/15/black-trans-... - and this trans person who cofounded a part of BLM: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elle_Hearns

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#212

Post by albertsondev »

bamboozled wrote: post #196
throw51319 wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Life in China is fine right now. They are living about 50x better off than their parents. They are educated. The CCP is super clever and imbued a sort of nationalistic pride from birth. Instead of the US's more complicated dualistic individualism/patriotism combo, the Chinese people actually get some sort of pride for being a cog in the CCP machine. It's a completely different paradigm and obviously super dangerous b…

So I think you're saying that, people are brainwashed to believe in the party?

Not brainwashed, but socialized. In East Asian countries and China especially, collectivism and Confucianism are pervasive, with deep cultural roots. The CCP is, of course, supporting and reinforcing those ideals, but it's just as much simply taking advantage of the pre-existing culture. Just like how the US is strongly culturally capitalist and individualistic -- as we value bootstraps capitalism and the "American Dream", the people of mainland China value supporting each other and the state, even when it's not explicitly in their best interests.

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#213

Post by brabel »

woodpanel wrote: post #149
vertex-four wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Relatively few" usually means a significant employment barrier - you usually have to be making a certain amount of money which is hard to come by at the lower rungs of STEM employment, especially if you're restricted to applying for companies you can interview with from overseas.

"Relatively few" for Germany means e.g. - if you're looking for a job here, as an US citizen you get 3 months visa without questions asked - there is no minimum amount of money needed in Germany for US citizens, neither as a deposit nor as pay

I believe that in all countries in Europe, there's a requirement that the pay be at market level to avoid the exploitation of immigrants (there's no distinction based on country of origin as you seem to imply), and that the job be advertised first with the EU's job agency (whatever that is called, I forgot now) and EU citizens are able to apply before an immigrant may be allowed to apply and take the job.

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#214

Post by skissane »

free_rms wrote: post #206
delecti wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a separate issue though. That China had the military might to take HK doesn't mean they were the legitimate government to have HK returned to. It's not stealing from China to not give them something taken from someone else.

The UK running HK in the first place was stealing from China. They originally got it as part of the peace settlement from the Opium Wars, then signed the 99-year lease later when the Qing empire was in terminal decline and unable to resist.

If UK had not switched recognition from ROC to PRC, they could have returned it to ROC instead.

UK could have demanded a lease renewal from PRC as the price for switching recognition. Instead they just got some “alliance” against the Soviets and it is questionable what that actually delivered.

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#215

Post by dingaling »

kiba wrote: post #71
daemin wrote: post #40

I would have said that returning Hong Kong back to China was one of the biggest mistakes the UK has made, but here we are in 2020. It would have been better if they made it into an independent city state like Singapore.

UK isn't going to be able to protect Hong Kong territory from the Chinese military. It would be a bloody fight and there will be a lot of lives lost, and likely anger from the people of Hong Kong.

The UK wouldn't have to win a stand-up fight against the PLA. Just taking China to the brink would be sufficient.

Is the CCP willing to jeopardise its position and future in the World for the sake of a few humid islands with no natural resources or strategic advantages?

And even more mind-focusing is the fact that the UK had the nuclear option on the table against Argentina in 1982.

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#216

Post by mytailorisrich »

harikb wrote: post #186
sampo wrote: post #67

68% of conservative voters, 71% of labour voters, and 77% of libdem voters support this. https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2020/0...

Whether UK citizens approve this or not, logistical challenge of making this happen is immense. I think UK politicians know this is just a threat. Moving people & jobs physically to UK, when people have physical investment in a house, school, bank accounts, investments is not easy. I can see people moving if CCP is literally killing non-protesting citizens like holocaust. On top of it, what is to prevent CCP from blo…

To be honest I think that the Chinese government would not care or actually be quite OK with it.

Indeed, who would leave HK? Arguably the anti-CCP, the "troublemakers". So that'd mean less 'trouble' in HK and there is a large supply of mainlanders happy to move to HK.

Obviously the Chinese government will officially be outraged but privately they may think good riddance.

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#217

Post by brabel »

crobertsbmw wrote: post #43
eggsnbacon1 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hong Kong was a British colony for generations and is still strongly influenced by western culture. Probably why China has such an obsession with crushing it. Adopting HK citizens is a far easier sell than Syrians. They already speak English, are highly educated, wealthy, westernized, and have special status in UK law. Letting a ton of refugees in is a large burden on the host country. They don't share British cultur…

After reading Open Borders by Bryan Cahlan, I’m convinced that if there is a burden on the host country it’s temporary. Long term, I think the host country has much more to gain than to lose.

The caveat is that this only works for economies that are growing, have a small natural population growth and hence actually need more people quite desperately.

Trying to apply this same logic to a country that's stagnant economically or that already has a fast growing population would be silly.

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#218

Post by dennisgorelik »

99_00 wrote: post #198

I live in Vancouver. The pattern for many Hong Kong immigrants is to have the mother and children live in Canada while the father works in HK.The family doesn't declare the foreign income in Canada. So they enjoy the benefits of a low tax HK income. And they get all the nice things that go with living in high tax Canada while not contributing to it -free healthcare, subsided University, safe communities, clean enviro…

> mother and children live in Canada

When these children grow up - they will pay taxes in Canada.

It looks like a good deal for Canada. Even if father's income is taxed in Hong Kong only.

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#219

Post by koheripbal »

99_00 wrote: post #198

I live in Vancouver. The pattern for many Hong Kong immigrants is to have the mother and children live in Canada while the father works in HK.The family doesn't declare the foreign income in Canada. So they enjoy the benefits of a low tax HK income. And they get all the nice things that go with living in high tax Canada while not contributing to it -free healthcare, subsided University, safe communities, clean enviro…

This is extremely common in many countries. Even in the US, there are many families that simply omit reporting income earned abroad. Sure, it's technically illegal, but it's not like the Chinese government is going to help enforce US tax laws.

Same is true for Chinese families in New Zealand and Australia as well. ...and it's not restricted to Chinese people either - obviously.

It's the curse of high tax jurisdictions.

Re: Hong Kong: UK makes citizenship offer to residents

#220

Post by hungryhobo »

harikb wrote: post #186
sampo wrote: post #67

68% of conservative voters, 71% of labour voters, and 77% of libdem voters support this. https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/articles-reports/2020/0...

Whether UK citizens approve this or not, logistical challenge of making this happen is immense. I think UK politicians know this is just a threat. Moving people & jobs physically to UK, when people have physical investment in a house, school, bank accounts, investments is not easy. I can see people moving if CCP is literally killing non-protesting citizens like holocaust. On top of it, what is to prevent CCP from blo…

The sentiment in the mainland is more or less get out and leave the us the land
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