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California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

reuters.com

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Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#471

Post by RHSeeger »

arkades wrote: post #377
RHSeeger wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) says the benefits of circumcision outweigh the risks.

Not exactly. The AAP has waffled for years, putting their thumb on the scales of every guideline to include a “cultural factor” to the cost- benefit analysis which is literally “but people really want this for religious reasons.” They generally aimed for neutral, until the 2012 task force statement. Accordingly, if you look up their most recent position statement (2012) they headline with “benefits outweigh risks.” B…

I agree there's some room for argument as to whether it should be recommended or not, but

- The headline includes "benefits outweigh risks"

- The text notes that "the benefits of circumcision are sufficient to ... warrant third-party payment for circumcision of male newborns"

I got downvoted to claiming they said "the benefits of circumcision outweigh the risks". I'm sorry, but... they do. Literally and unambiguously.

Assuming you trust the AAP (which many Americans probably do), comparing it to FGM is patently absurd.

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#472

Post by TheAdamAndChe »

rutherblood wrote: post #210
saagarjha wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> let's ask an Indian parent if they'd be comfortable having their child marry someone they think is of a "lower caste" than theirs I have found that one of the quickest ways to be sure that the answer you get for that question matches what you’d like is to open them up to the possibility you might not get married at all. If my parents ever cared about that, they sure don’t now, and they’re nowhere near desperate ;)

IMO Indian parents are some of most sly people to walk earth. They coerce, emotionally blackmail and are obsessive about controlling their child's lives be it professional, educational, romantic decisions. Sometimes I think the quote "Most parents would do anything for their child except let them be who they are" is specifically made for the Indian boomer generation.

Not every culture values independence above all like the west. Many places, particularly around Asia, value family ties or the collective good more than the individual.

Also, who someone is isn't set in stone. It can be molded by those around them.

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#473

Post by wobbly_bush »

paloaltokid wrote: post #38

I'm a very white guy living in California and I often get the impression that caste is something that Indian folks living here are aware of amongst each other, but they don't really discuss it with white people. On some level it feels to me like it's something Indian folks don't share because they feel it would be misunderstood (which makes a lot of sense). Or maybe it's a kind of "not airing out the laundry in publi…

> but they don't really discuss it with white people

Because it's a complex topic and one can't condense the lives of 1B+ people so easily. It's also not a solved problem, so most of the folks who speak out do it as form of venting or to bring a change due to some personal experiences.

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#474

Post by noisy_boy »

On a not totally unrelated note, the quota for scheduled caste (SC)/scheduled tribes (ST) in India has had the unintended effect of discriminatory behaviour towards them by non-SC/ST. E.g. if the cut-off marks for getting admission in a college course come out to be 165 for non-SC/ST category and 135 for SC/ST (depending on the no. of seats/no. of candidates/ranking etc), the non-SC/ST applicant who got 150 and didn't make it, isn't going to super happy that an SC/ST applicant who got 140 marks got into the same course. This results in resentment of SC/ST students/applicants/workers who have availed the quota system for courses/jobs etc.

Further, the fact that such a quota system was supposed to be for a fixed/limited period for upliftment of such groups, has been renewed again and again for vote-bank politics and that has caused even more acrimony. This has nicely played into the politicians' dream of dividing people into clusters that they can manipulate.

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#475

Post by eklavya »

naveens wrote: post #259
eklavya wrote: post #219

I am ashamed that a few bad people give a bad name to us all. It reinforces the cast divide and enables a section to trumpet about the bad Indian culture or bad Hindu. It's despicable and I fail to understand how educated and technical people can still practice something so inhuman. To the people saying nothing has changed in India, no, so so much has changed, there are many more intercaste marriages and anecdotal bu…

How many of the 50% of your anecdotal data is brahmins/upper-castes marrying dalits? Have your heard of honour killings where a dalit family killing the upper caste bride or groom?

Don't really know any brahmins, my friend circle has Dalits and other upper castes. My sister's friends have examples of Brahmin-Dalit marriages, I know Dalit-Dalit, Dalit-Non Dalit marriages. All are economically well off whether Dalit or non Dalit and I get to discuss this online only. We do have discussions about reservation and it's effects however. My Dalit friend chose to fight UPSC in general category as a matter of pride and principal, he didn't want a freebie.

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#476

Post by sremani »

mistrial9 wrote: post #440
sremani wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

India's literacy rate in 1947 is right below 10%. It was not just Dalits that did not have education. Education for a long time has been limited to few people and vast number of those people are not western educated either. They got traditional oral education well into mid-19th century.

As an American with an interest in South Asian culture, I found this ten percent number striking. A quick look at the US Library of Congress via Google search, shows these major newspapers of India in the 1940s. https://www.loc.gov/newspapers/?all=true&dates=1940-1949&fa=... I believe there were more than 15 languages in India with newspaper circulation of 1 million or more, in addition to English and Hindi, in the 1…

India's population in 1950 is roughly 400 million. 10% of that is about 40 million.

15 news papers with million or more circulation and 40 million people who are considered literate, the numbers show how high news paper penetration rate was (in era of limited radio and no TV in India).

Edit: Found this graph abt literacy in India around 1950, it is about 13-16% ball park.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy_in_India#/media/File:...

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#477

Post by shripadk »

Ar-Curunir wrote: post #447
_tw9j wrote: post #363

Earlier quoted context omitted.

None of this actually fixes anything. The core problem is poverty and lack of good education. If affirmative action was based on poverty instead of caste and wasn't in terms of hiring/reducing marks but giving out resources to those who lack it, it might have save more lives because currently more rich or upper middle class families benefit from the affirmative action. 10% of country owns approximately 80% of the wea…

This is nonsense. As is demonstrated in this thread, even people with similar educational and professional backgrounds are discriminated against on the basis of caste. Since historically the managerial class is dominated by upper castes, the ones being discriminated against are naturally lower castes. Yes, the reservation system is imperfect and is abused. That doesn’t mean that we replace it with a system that is ca…

No this is looking at the problem superficially. The upper castes feel neglected because there are close to 50% reservation in Government jobs. So they have no choice but to go to private sector. Now they practice undeclared reservation in private sector and not give jobs to the lower castes even if they are equally good and if not better. This is a systemic problem. Each one feels slighted. The lower castes have reservation in Government jobs so upper castes create undeclared reservation in private jobs. Both are harmful to the society!

Even the architect of the Caste-based reservation system Dr. Ambedkar (who is also the architect of the Indian Constitution) said that the Reservation in its current form should only exist for 10 years and not be extended. He contended that 10 years is more than sufficient to have a caste-based reservation. But it kept continuing for 70+ years. It is high time we revamp it to only provide reservation for those who are from low income categories. Doesn't matter which caste they are from. That will actually be helpful.

Caste-based reservation only enforces caste system in India. It doesn't help get rid of it! And it also goes against one of the six Fundamental Rights of Indian Constitution: The Right to Equality. Caste-based reservation violates this Fundamental Right. It was a temporary stop-gap measure which we have made permanent not to upset a section of the Indian society. But it is causing more harm than good. That is a fact!

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#478

Post by foogazi »

reverend_gonzo wrote: post #375
entha_saava wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why would you witness such extreme casteism? Ok that wasn't much clear. Things like untouchability or fights between castes aren't there. And while in-caste marriage etc.. are a thing, that's not exactly discrimination thing. Eg: there are multiple sub groups in Brahmins based on origin and while they don't have 'lower' 'higher', the marriages are preferred to be within that sub groups because each of them have dis…

Why not let the two people getting married make the decision if they want to merge the two cultures? I do not ask this rhetorically. I am Indian, though raised in America with very liberal parents. I have a cousin in India who can not get married to her boyfriend because his mother won't accept a marriage to someone who speaks a slightly different language. Both are similar caste, same religion, just from different p…

> I have a cousin in India who can not get married to her boyfriend because his mother won't accept a marriage

She can but she won’t, or do mothers have to sign-off on marriages?

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#479

Post by wobbly_bush »

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #467
wobbly_bush wrote: post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> let's ask an Indian parent if they'd be comfortable having their child marry someone they think is of a "lower caste" than theirs. THIS is the best litmus test, quick, cheap and easy way to clear all doubts on the contemporary caste question. This test will fail because it doesn't account for what truly is caste in people's minds. Even among those who do not want to discriminate, different castes represent differen…

Is that just an Indian thing? Because in my family, here in Rural Iowa, the in-laws include a woman from New Delhi, Valencia Spain, Baguio Philippines, 2nd generation Elba Italy, Korea. That doesn't count the New Englanders and Appalachians (which is a whole different thing than Iowan). I mention it because, a spouse of a different culture can be a wonderful thing. Language, food, daily culture are a constant source…

I agree with you but for a country which has seen more than 1000 years of conflict from "outside cultures" (the Mughals, the British, etc.), the instinct to preserve one's own culture is very strong. That is why you see Hinduism still surviving whereas in other parts of the world other local religions (and cultures) were destroyed. Recently with more education, globalization, emigration and with the internet things have started to change slowly.

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#480

Post by woah »

0x8BADF00D wrote: post #454

You need to put them on notice for not speaking English at an American company. They need to learn this is America. Call them out and escalate up your management chain if they don’t stop. It’s extremely unprofessional and egregious to speak in another language that other people cannot understand in a business context.

I think they are in India lol. Even if they were in the US, they can speak any language they damn well please. And I think they might be talking about speaking English anyway, since different regions may have different accents in English as well.
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