California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste • Hacker News Board

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#391

Post by JumpCrisscross » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 12:52 PM UTC

9nGQluzmnq3M wrote: post #136

olcor wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> eating that tortilla since it contains lard I'm not a Brahmin (and am technically from a much "lower caste") and I wouldn't eat lard (I'm a vegetarian). IMO caste and vegetarianism are different concepts. While certain castes/communities/regions might promote vegetarianism and some might not, I'm not sure if they're always an identifying marker. A lot of people in India are vegetarian for a multitude of reasons and…

It's not 1:1, but there's a clear correlation. To caricature a bit, the Brahmins at the top of the hierarchy can afford to have an elaborate "pure" vegetarian diet with lots of ghee etc (the Jains, mentioned earlier, even exclude root vegetables that would kill the plant), somewhere around the middle of the pile you start eating animals because you need to get your protein where you can, and at the very bottom are th…

> you start eating animals because you need to get your protein where you can

Animal protein is more expensive to produce than plant protein, the result of nothing less than thermodynamics.

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#392

Post by jl6 » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 12:55 PM UTC

richrichardsson wrote: post #252

ReticentVole wrote: post #235

If Indians are so willing to discriminate against eachother on the basis of their own caste, we should be entirely unsurprised when Indians managers and companies discriminate against non-Indians (ie. Americans and other Europeans) in their own countries - of which there are multiple recorded instances. We need to be incredibly careful with the volume of migrants that we are taking in to the West. Issues like FGM, se…

Whilst FGM is absolutely abhorrent, I really can't stand how MGM (or circumcision without any medical need for it) is happily accepted in "Western values". I can accept that circumcision is a medical need in some cases (my brother required it, something he elected to have done in his late teens), but I can't accept the double standard of "it's fine to chop parts off a baby boy without his consent because it's a part…

My impression is that MGM is decreasingly part of “Western values” and more an American thing. There seems to be a massive blind spot in American culture on this issue.

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#393

Post by throwaway781341 » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 12:56 PM UTC

sumedh wrote: post #313

throwaway781341 wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are painting only one sided picture and that's obvious from username you have chosen. India has 1bn+ people, you can't generalize this. There are bunch of Brahmin people at higher level who actively work to uplift others and they do this without being atheist. There are 12 types of beliefs defined in Indian spirituality, it's not binary as in atheist vs believer. Also, food for thought - are all Brahmins in India…

> India has 1bn+ people, you can't generalize this. Have you seen the matrimonial ads in India? Why am I getting a feeling that you are a Brahmin and you are not happy that people from lower castes have their own quotas in govt jobs/education.

may be the reason why you are getting this feeling is that racist instinct.

and no, I'm not unhappy for the said reason. If you read my comment properly, I was pointing out the fact that mentioning only one side of the story, because one fell victim to the caste system, on a forum like HN is wrong as it provides very different picture. Most of the people reading this have no clue what it's like. Be responsible.

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#394

Post by C1sc0cat » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 12:58 PM UTC

iamshs wrote: post #332

C1sc0cat wrote: post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mentioned this before and got marked down for it. In the UK Caste was added a few years into the anti discrimination law. I know one of the MP's involved in getting that through parliament.

Wasn't the bill not passed through the parliament due to opposition by British Hindus? [1] Or you talking about a separate law? [1] - https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-38663143

I am not sure I thought that Parmjit Danda, Keith Vaz and Lord Gupta had got it through.

Incidentally the person concerned in that article lives in my home town

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#395

Post by anandrm » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 12:58 PM UTC

entha_saava wrote: post #367

anandrm wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lets put it this way , you guys had the privilege. AFAIK atleast 2 generations ahead with the reading and writing compared to other communites. Please dnt pick exceptions here. The community had a headstart privilege access to reading and writing. If you look at the data of professors here in US and the first generation of guys in US doing higher studies you know. So you have a community base here . Its the same with…

> If you look at the data of professors here in US and the first generation of guys in US doing higher studies you know. So you have a community base here . Its the same with IITs and reputed educations institutions . This is not the generalization I oppose. I agree with this. (Although as far as IITs are concerned it is mostly well-off Bania's rather than Brahmins, but still privilege at play). What I don't like is…

I m not generalizing all are well off . I do know of BPL families from this community , but thats 1% , the rest 99% are others. I want to emphasize the majoritarianism . While i was graduating in engineering ,I was the first engineer in my Family tree. I wanted to purse my MS in US, but struggling to find information and support , while my other friend from the same middle class upper caste community had all information + 10 cousins in US to guide and support him . I was working in startup with a Ultra Upper caste founder ,he brought in his dumb cousin as the VP PM.My friend who was from the upper caste , who was working his ass off was never promoted , the CEO was trying to do best for his community.

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#396

Post by mirchibajji » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 12:58 PM UTC

furyroad wrote: post #299

mirchibajji wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The other side of the story is the positive discrimination via Reservations that some castes are granted for college admissions, jobs, promotions, financial help etc. available to them. I don't know the legal position of this, but I imagine changing a name might be seen as giving up on your caste based reservations. Politicians favour caste/religion based voter segmentation, which doesn't help either. In some states,…

Reservation is not granted based on the last name. It is granted based on the caste marked in the documents. While it is true that the fourth candidate with 100% may not get a seat, the same is true in reserved seats as well. If there are 20 reserved seats and 21 candidates score 100%, the last guy may not get a seat. I don't understand what is that you are calling unfair as.

> Reservation is not granted based on the last name. It is granted based on the caste marked in the documents.

Yes.

I was responding to "why not change the last name". There is a correlation between some castes and last names, so changing the last name may seem as giving up on the caste-based reservation. ie, a practical reason to retain the family name.

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#397

Post by C1sc0cat » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 1:00 PM UTC

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #350

C1sc0cat wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Caste is not the same as Class Discrimination.

Depends on who is doing the definition. The British system has a lot more to do with who mommy and daddy are, than what the sheepskin says. It's pretty hard for people raised in the US to understand it. We keep looking at it through our lens, and we have a relatively young, egalitarian, culture that started when our continent was used as an overflow for the prison system. A lot of folks in the UK try to get ahead by…

Yes but Class discrimination is no where as brutal as Caste discrimination is - you don't get honour killings for marrying the wrong person.

Don't take this the wrong way this is your white privilege showing

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#398

Post by sumedh » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 1:05 PM UTC

throwaway781341 wrote: post #393

sumedh wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> India has 1bn+ people, you can't generalize this. Have you seen the matrimonial ads in India? Why am I getting a feeling that you are a Brahmin and you are not happy that people from lower castes have their own quotas in govt jobs/education.

may be the reason why you are getting this feeling is that racist instinct. and no, I'm not unhappy for the said reason. If you read my comment properly, I was pointing out the fact that mentioning only one side of the story, because one fell victim to the caste system, on a forum like HN is wrong as it provides very different picture. Most of the people reading this have no clue what it's like. Be responsible.

Why are you using a throwaway account, are you ashamed to admit that upper castes in India have subjugated lower castes or are you just ashamed that everyone else on HN now knows about India's dirty laundry?

Shame is good, it will help you change.

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#399

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 1:05 PM UTC

walt0 wrote: post #99

I live and work in India and I would like to throw more light on this. Me and my friends like to joke around that you will never get your dues, either pay raise or promotions unless you have the last names jain, gupta, sharma, verma. I had a guy on my team who was very capable but did not have the right last name, he was being harassed for promotions for 4-5 years. On the other hand the manager class was entirely "ja…

[deleted]

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#400

Post by randomguy2379 » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 1:06 PM UTC

roel_v wrote: post #241

randomguy2379 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am someone who was born a hindu dalit and I am so ashamed of sharing that identity of mine that I am posting anonymously. Hindus believe that humans are like dogs and they have a breed. So a person who is born in a higher caste is of a better breed than a person born in a lower caste. Numerous genetic studies have found no significant difference amongst Indian castes. The moment an upper caste person realizes that…

"Upper caste hindus have no problem seeing a converted christian as their equal" I know nothing about this at all, if you don't mind answering - how do you signal this? Do you wear a cross in a very visible way? In my experience, opinions about someone are formed when you meet hem and it's hard to change afterwards; what happens when people learn later on that you're Christian? Does their treatment of you change?

By christian names. Hindus mostly look alike and you can't figure out someone's caste by just looking at them. People usually ask for your full name to figure out your caste and if you give them a christian name, they usually understand that you don't have caste. Usually names are the first things everyone exchanges, so people don't end up learning that I am christian later. I am fair and tall ( 6 ft ) so that also works in my favour.