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California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

reuters.com

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Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#281

Post by walt0 »

naruvimama wrote: post #271
walt0 wrote: post #99

I live and work in India and I would like to throw more light on this. Me and my friends like to joke around that you will never get your dues, either pay raise or promotions unless you have the last names jain, gupta, sharma, verma. I had a guy on my team who was very capable but did not have the right last name, he was being harassed for promotions for 4-5 years. On the other hand the manager class was entirely "ja…

Do you realise Jain is a religion. Yes, people do stereotype people based on their background. In a country where just 70 years ago, people were shipped off to the caribbean as bonded labourers and as slave replacements. People and communities form tribes and where you are in your life depends a lot on how wealthy and influential your parents/grand parents where. A big problem is the the leftist politics of painting…

Yes I do because I live here. Becuase most of the original adherents of jainism are from the merchant caste and if you ask a layperson that is how they will describe them. And there is still a strong syncreticism between hinduism and jainism. Most jains still run businesses, companies and corners shops.

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#282

Post by randomguy2379 »

peroporque wrote: post #147
walt0 wrote: post #99

I live and work in India and I would like to throw more light on this. Me and my friends like to joke around that you will never get your dues, either pay raise or promotions unless you have the last names jain, gupta, sharma, verma. I had a guy on my team who was very capable but did not have the right last name, he was being harassed for promotions for 4-5 years. On the other hand the manager class was entirely "ja…

Couldn't people just change their last name? I imagine if suddenly everyone's last name was Gupta, that kind of discrimination would become difficult.

An even better approach is to just change your religion. I was born a hindu dalit but I converted and so have many of my friends and family. Religious conversions have become so common in India that states have started to bring out laws to curtail it. Casteism is a construct of Hinduism and other religions don't suffer from it in the same way as Hinduism does. So you can change your religion , your name and claim that you have no caste. Hindus have no problem seeing a converted christian as equal to them, but will refuse to see people from their own religion as equal.

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#283

Post by ecmascript »

walt0 wrote: post #99

I live and work in India and I would like to throw more light on this. Me and my friends like to joke around that you will never get your dues, either pay raise or promotions unless you have the last names jain, gupta, sharma, verma. I had a guy on my team who was very capable but did not have the right last name, he was being harassed for promotions for 4-5 years. On the other hand the manager class was entirely "ja…

What if you change your last name to either of these?

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#284

Post by pnako »

Broken_Hippo wrote: post #238
ReticentVole wrote: post #235

If Indians are so willing to discriminate against eachother on the basis of their own caste, we should be entirely unsurprised when Indians managers and companies discriminate against non-Indians (ie. Americans and other Europeans) in their own countries - of which there are multiple recorded instances. We need to be incredibly careful with the volume of migrants that we are taking in to the West. Issues like FGM, se…

We need to be incredibly careful with the volume of migrants that we are taking in to the West. Issues like FGM, sex-selective abortions, hiring discrimination are becoming established because migrants have come over in such numbers that they have little pressure to assimilate and adopt Western values. Honestly, I don't believe you. This just sounds like the same thing racists and xenophobes have been saying for year…

In France, about 20 years ago there was a lively debate about whether north-African girls, in high school and universities, should be allowed to wear a "foulard islamique" (scarf over the hair).

Now we are completely past that, and we have women wearing burkas and niqabs; things covering the entire body. This also increasingly includes indigenous French women. So not only some groups don't assimilate, they actually proselytize and convert others.

It used to be politically incorrect to say it but nowadays the entire political class, including the left, is forced to recognize that it's an issue.

It's especially a tremendous issue in France because it used to promote assimilation: the idea that anyone, racially, could become French as long as they completely abandoned their culture of origin (i.e. the opposite of multiculturalism). In practice it mostly worked with other Europeans like Spaniards, Italians, etc. Now we have an issue since we have de-facto (and non-working) multiculturalism in a country that still officially promotes assimilation.

So yes it's definitely a problem, and as far as I can see it's been a problem everywhere, and throughout history. The idea that people with radically different cultures can live in the same place is not confirmed anywhere. In fact we can see that even people of the same racial background, with slightly different cultures, cannot really live together (a good example of that is Belgium, where Wallons and Flamands can't find political agreement).

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#285

Post by sameerds »

walt0 wrote: post #267
sameerds wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In India, "the Left" represents socialism, while "the Right" represents liberal economics. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_left People with leftist political leanings are generally unhappy with all governments, and have very strong opinions about how the country should be run. They end up forming their own tight clubs. EDIT: corrected "libertarian economics" to "liberal economics"

I disagree with this actually. The right in India in terms of economic policy is as far left as in the democratic party in USA. The left is further left.

Sure, I'll take your word about US politics. But I don't see a disagreement ... the Indian right still represents the liberal end of the Indian spectrum on economic policy. Whether that is far or near in US terms does not constitute a disagreement.

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#286

Post by pnako »

tomcam wrote: post #112
randomguy2379 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am someone who was born a hindu dalit and I am so ashamed of sharing that identity of mine that I am posting anonymously. Hindus believe that humans are like dogs and they have a breed. So a person who is born in a higher caste is of a better breed than a person born in a lower caste. Numerous genetic studies have found no significant difference amongst Indian castes. The moment an upper caste person realizes that…

Easy for me to say, but if I were you, assuming you’re in the USA, I’d own the hell out of it. To be ashamed of it here is to give power needlessly to whole populations who do not own you. And the States love an underdog. This is the country where “Yankee Doodle” started out as an anti-American insult by the Brits and ended up being one of the nation’s favorite songs. The nation that used the N-word seriously until a…

> I’d own the hell out of it.

Yeah, right. Try to own the hell of being white, for example, and see how far this gets you nowadays.

Easy for you to say, indeed.

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#287

Post by bantunes »

naruvimama wrote: post #271
walt0 wrote: post #99

I live and work in India and I would like to throw more light on this. Me and my friends like to joke around that you will never get your dues, either pay raise or promotions unless you have the last names jain, gupta, sharma, verma. I had a guy on my team who was very capable but did not have the right last name, he was being harassed for promotions for 4-5 years. On the other hand the manager class was entirely "ja…

Do you realise Jain is a religion. Yes, people do stereotype people based on their background. In a country where just 70 years ago, people were shipped off to the caribbean as bonded labourers and as slave replacements. People and communities form tribes and where you are in your life depends a lot on how wealthy and influential your parents/grand parents where. A big problem is the the leftist politics of painting…

> A big problem is the the leftist politics of painting everything as social problems, instead of dealing with them as they are.

I don't understand. If caste-based discrimination is not a social problem, what is it then?

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#288

Post by markdown »

naruvimama wrote: post #271
walt0 wrote: post #99

I live and work in India and I would like to throw more light on this. Me and my friends like to joke around that you will never get your dues, either pay raise or promotions unless you have the last names jain, gupta, sharma, verma. I had a guy on my team who was very capable but did not have the right last name, he was being harassed for promotions for 4-5 years. On the other hand the manager class was entirely "ja…

Do you realise Jain is a religion. Yes, people do stereotype people based on their background. In a country where just 70 years ago, people were shipped off to the caribbean as bonded labourers and as slave replacements. People and communities form tribes and where you are in your life depends a lot on how wealthy and influential your parents/grand parents where. A big problem is the the leftist politics of painting…

> In a country where just 70 years ago, people were shipped off to the caribbean as bonded labourers and as slave replacements.

And they largely took that caste system with them to their new homes, unfortunately.

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#289

Post by dmurray »

sbierwagen wrote: post #208
himinlomax wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For some reason this reminds me of this Senegalese immigrant to France who, upon receiving citizenship, petitioned to have his legal name changed to better reflect his new identity. He chose "Charles de Gaulle." This was 30 years ago, I don't remember if he was successful.

For those unfamiliar with French history: the original Charles de Gaulle was born in Lille, France, in 1890, and was the leader of the French government in exile during WW2. Taking his name would be something like an American immigrant naming themselves George Washington.

That wasn't a popular name chosen by immigrants to America, but very popular among freed slaves who had a similar opportunity to choose a new name:

https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-world/washington-the-bla...

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#290

Post by 80mph »

postingawayonhn wrote: post #217
peroporque wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couldn't people just change their last name? I imagine if suddenly everyone's last name was Gupta, that kind of discrimination would become difficult.

Yes. That's what Sikhs do. > Male Sikhs generally have Singh ("lion") as their middle or last name, though not all Singhs are Sikhs. Likewise, female Sikhs have Kaur ("princess") as their middle or last name. [1] [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sikhs

But don't Sikhs also have their own (diluted?) form of caste system?
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