California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste • Hacker News Board

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#271

Post by naruvimama » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 9:48 AM UTC

walt0 wrote: post #99

I live and work in India and I would like to throw more light on this. Me and my friends like to joke around that you will never get your dues, either pay raise or promotions unless you have the last names jain, gupta, sharma, verma. I had a guy on my team who was very capable but did not have the right last name, he was being harassed for promotions for 4-5 years. On the other hand the manager class was entirely "ja…

Do you realise Jain is a religion.

Yes, people do stereotype people based on their background.

In a country where just 70 years ago, people were shipped off to the caribbean as bonded labourers and as slave replacements.

People and communities form tribes and where you are in your life depends a lot on how wealthy and influential your parents/grand parents where.

A big problem is the the leftist politics of painting everything as social problems, instead of dealing with them as they are.

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#272

Post by mirchibajji » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 9:48 AM UTC

peroporque wrote: post #147

walt0 wrote: post #99

I live and work in India and I would like to throw more light on this. Me and my friends like to joke around that you will never get your dues, either pay raise or promotions unless you have the last names jain, gupta, sharma, verma. I had a guy on my team who was very capable but did not have the right last name, he was being harassed for promotions for 4-5 years. On the other hand the manager class was entirely "ja…

Couldn't people just change their last name? I imagine if suddenly everyone's last name was Gupta, that kind of discrimination would become difficult.

The other side of the story is the positive discrimination via Reservations that some castes are granted for college admissions, jobs, promotions, financial help etc. available to them. I don't know the legal position of this, but I imagine changing a name might be seen as giving up on your caste based reservations. Politicians favour caste/religion based voter segmentation, which doesn't help either.

In some states, it is impossible to get into good med schools, even if you score 100% in your tests, because there could be only three seats in the open quota, and 4 candidates got 100%

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#273

Post by ChrisMarshallNY » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 9:48 AM UTC

I’ve got a “hot button” about castes. I hate ‘em.

Comes from growing up overseas (I live in the US), and having servants.

These were the people that raised us, and were, for all intents and purpose, “family.”

Except they weren’t, and when I found out how they lived, it broke my heart.

I was also raised by a British mother, who was an awesome woman, but came from a middle-class Liverpool (“scouse”) family, and spent her entire early life feeling “not good enough,” despite attending an Ivy-League university, and excelling at her work (http://cmarshall.com/miscellaneous/SheilaMarshall.htm).

Knowing how she felt also broke my heart.

The British have a heavy-duty caste system that isn’t as codified as India’s, but just as pervasive.

Of course, in the US (and, I believe, in other parts of the world), we are currently facing a reckoning about another type of “caste system.”

There seems to be an innate human need to “just be better” than others. I think we all have it, and have to make a conscious effort to suppress the impulse.

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#274

Post by OJFord » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 9:51 AM UTC

hef19898 wrote: post #209

twic wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a striking example of this in the COVID mortality statistics [1]: > The data shows those males categorised as black are over 4.6 times more likely to die than their white counterparts from the virus. They are followed by Pakistanis/Bangladeshis (just over four times more likely to die), and then Chinese and Indians (just over 2.5 times). People of Indian and Pakistani background are not significantly geneti…

This mortality question is one that really intrigues me. Minorities have higher rates in the US and the UK for example. I didn't see any numbers for Germany so far, and France isn't collecting data based on "race" (for lack of a better term). What would really be interessting is to break the mortality down by income and poverty. And than compare it to income an poverty based on race, where such numbers are available…

> I didn't see any numbers for Germany so far, and France isn't collecting data based on "race" (for lack of a better term).

Germany doesn't either (by law, not just policy or habit, since the war) - quite an interesting article I saw recently reported that (in particular) black women in Germany are unhappy about it, because it (is perceived to) stymie support or positive action and such. Which, of course, was not the intended effect of banning the collection of such data at all!

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#275

Post by pnako » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 9:52 AM UTC

IfOnlyYouKnew wrote: post #231

himinlomax wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For some reason this reminds me of this Senegalese immigrant to France who, upon receiving citizenship, petitioned to have his legal name changed to better reflect his new identity. He chose "Charles de Gaulle." This was 30 years ago, I don't remember if he was successful.

He will willing to, almost literally, give up his identity to assimilate. Plus he apparently had a pretty good understanding of the culture. I hope he got the name, a good job, and maybe some sort of award for "French Person of the Year".

Well, he got an airport and nuclear aircraft carrier named after him!

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#276

Post by walt0 » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 9:54 AM UTC

walt0 wrote: post #99

I live and work in India and I would like to throw more light on this. Me and my friends like to joke around that you will never get your dues, either pay raise or promotions unless you have the last names jain, gupta, sharma, verma. I had a guy on my team who was very capable but did not have the right last name, he was being harassed for promotions for 4-5 years. On the other hand the manager class was entirely "ja…

The reason I joined the private sector instead of the government sector, is that these issues are much much worse in the government sector. I was brainwashed to belive that merit will be valued in the private sector by the HR department and the managers. Which its not in the few places I have worked at.

I'm not even low-caste but still faced these issues.

My dad worked for the government for 30 years and he was not promoted even once until this year. this is not because he was not good at his work, the work is actually pretty simple and stupid, but because of affirmative action policies of all governments current and past, left or right.

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#277

Post by disgruntledphd2 » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 9:54 AM UTC

cma wrote: post #180

vijaybritto wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People simply need a way to be looked at as equals under God. They convert to christianity for this main reason. But the Brahmins will claim that they converted for 'rice bags'. Its still a widely used slur in India while referring to converted christians. A better off dalit is still a dalit. Thats the point. The society will discriminate against you in all ways possible. Right from job applications to finding a part…

> People simply need a way to be looked at as equals under God. Christianity doesn't seem like a great choice then since it teaches God will burn all non-Christians eternally in Hell.

This is a belief that is associated with Christianity, but doesn't have a lot of support in the scriptures.

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#278

Post by castevictim » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 9:57 AM UTC

throwaway781341 wrote: post #233

castevictim wrote: post #78

Readers who are not from Indian subcontinent may find this difficult to understand or beleive, let me throw some context. Indian caste system is probably the longest running abuse,racism, human rights violation in the human history. Even,now in some parts of the country people from lowest caste are made to carry human waste on their head[0]. After independence,thanks to rights offered by constitution & reservation by…

You are painting only one sided picture and that's obvious from username you have chosen. India has 1bn+ people, you can't generalize this. There are bunch of Brahmin people at higher level who actively work to uplift others and they do this without being atheist. There are 12 types of beliefs defined in Indian spirituality, it's not binary as in atheist vs believer. Also, food for thought - are all Brahmins in India…

>BLM - "Brahmin Lives Matter"

How many Brahmins or upper caste people were killed by a dalit family for marrying their loved one? Can you say for sure that no dalit or someone from other oppressed community was killed 'today' for the same reason?

I'm not surprisd that you mock BLM, what caste racists think of the 'Black lives matter' is quite evident from the social media posts of casteists in India and abroad. India has consecutively been rated the most racist country in the world for a reason.

>reservation

Sins.

Let's remove caste system, make castes illegal, burn your caste certificate, give time period for removing reservation; what would be the appropriate time line for remedy thousand years of injustice?

Would you even vote for someone who says the above?

Even if caste system is made illegal today, the vast & powerful brahminical network advantage would benefit upper caste people for several generations. Where as lower caste people would suffer for next 100 years if reservation is removed.

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#279

Post by furyroad » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 9:58 AM UTC

peroporque wrote: post #147

walt0 wrote: post #99

I live and work in India and I would like to throw more light on this. Me and my friends like to joke around that you will never get your dues, either pay raise or promotions unless you have the last names jain, gupta, sharma, verma. I had a guy on my team who was very capable but did not have the right last name, he was being harassed for promotions for 4-5 years. On the other hand the manager class was entirely "ja…

Couldn't people just change their last name? I imagine if suddenly everyone's last name was Gupta, that kind of discrimination would become difficult.

I am from the state of Tamil Nadu. Unlike other states, we don't use a last name. The official forms and documents of state government/schools will not have a last name field. If pressed for last name, we just use fathers name. The first time I had to give a last name was when I was >20 years old when applying for passport from the Indian government. (Federal govt. not the state govt.) My last name is my fathers first name. My fathers last name is his fathers first name. My grand fathers last name was his caste name. Till my grand fathers generation, caste name as last name was prevalent. It all changed with the Self-Respect movement led by social justice icon Periyar. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Periyar_E._V._Ramasamy

At fist Self-Respect conference held on Feb 1929, Periyar passed a resolution to drop caste names. The press report about the conference reads “The necessity of the resolution to drop caste titles is strengthened because of the practice of discriminating persons on the basis of their names without knowing anything about their character, ability or intelligence. The demand that such discriminatory caste titles and religion-markers are abolished will appeal to all those in favour of unity and equality.” Source: https://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/all-in-your-name/arti...

It is rather popular to use the education qualifications after a persons name (like MBA, Masters in Engineering etc), as most seen on wedding invitations behind bride and grooms name, to emphasize on the importance of education and skills as a status marker rather than birth. Example: https://kingofcards.in/media/others/printing/templates/templ...

Re: California accuses Cisco of job discrimination based on Indian employee's caste

#280

Post by randomguy2379 » Wed, Jul 01, 2020, 9:59 AM UTC

entha_saava wrote: post #243

scandox wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Curious what extreme left ideology looks like in India.

You can go to r/india to see that. That sub is peak irrational leftism. And people generalizing Brahmins and other upper castes as oppressors are not exactly right. For many of us who are Brahmin by caste but have a rural, agriculture etc.. background otherwise, we have not witnessed such extreme casteism. Disclaimer: Brahmin by caste / surname but my community is traditionally agriculturist.

Only a brahmin would point out that he is brahmin TWICE in his comment. We know that you are a brahmin and feel 'proud' of your caste. You sir, are the reason why casteism exists in India.